No subject
Mon Oct 15 18:04:28 UTC 2012
> BTW this is not just about current Fedora users. Marketing is mainly
> about potential users.
>
Sure -
>
> Well, as someone has already said here: stability and reliability are
> relative terms. I used Arch Linux for a while and I didn't find it
> stable and reliable on the level where I'd like to see Fedora. If you
> have to read release notes before every update to make sure you know
> what might break and how to fix it, then you're not using a system that
> would be appealing to a large number of user. And Fedora has always been
> aiming much broader audience than Gentoo or Arch.
>
Generally speaking for arch linux you don't get "release notes" for
packages as such - and for the most part a regular update merely requires
the following command:
#pacman -Syu
then accept or reject running the set of updates that is offered. Not a big
deal - now and again there is an announcement on arch-announce (also on
their main web page) which says run the following command (or two!) before
the next update or similar - hardly a major hassle every few months.
It's true that for my Fedora boxes I just have to run:
#yum -y update
or
#yum update and then accept or reject the set of updates offered - much the
same really.
however for F16 which is current I don't have the latest KDE, or the latest
systemd, or the latest libreoffice etc - which I do on my arch boxes. For
any user that does not mind having KDE work OK but not with the latest
round of bug fixes and new features it is fine. Similar with the other
packages. Chrome is not offered as mainline by either distro but on Fedora
google has a yum repo - so I run the latest chrome just fine on F16 - and
in arch there is the latest via the AUR system so I run the latest chrome
there too. But I won't have to run any re-install on the arch boxes whereas
in order to keep my F16 boxes supported I will have to re-install around
the end of the year. I know there are constant reminders from people who
say they have never re-installed and just preupgrade but my own experience
with that around the F9 timeframe was really poor - and I ended up doing a
sequence of manual steps along with various yum upgrades/updates and kept a
box going through two releases before deciding that a clean install was
about the only sensible way forward at that time - maybe it is really quite
trouble free updating from one release to another these days - so maybe my
F16 boxes could be upgraded nice and easy to F17 and F18 with only a few
commands and a bit of a wait - but I am not convinced it is worth the risk
as one of them is a server!
So it is "horses for courses" - I have two courses and a number of horses
and so far none of the horses have died!
--
mike c
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<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra">On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Jiri Eischm=
ann <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:eischmann at redhat.com" target=3D=
"_blank">eischmann at redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div><br>
</div>Release parties and codenames were just examples. It's about the =
buzz<br>
around releases. You can check Google Trends where you find peaks in<br>
number of searches for Fedora after every release. Or <a href=3D"http://fp.=
org" target=3D"_blank">fp.org</a> monthly<br>
stats. You would lose reviews, that are usually published after<br>
releases, because I don't see any reviews of rolling release<br>
distributions by main magazines. Etc.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>H=
ere is one: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/features/under-the-hoo=
d-with-arch-and-gentoo" target=3D"_blank">http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/featur=
es/under-the-hood-with-arch-and-gentoo</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>From a few weeks ago!</div><div><br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1p=
x;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1=
ex">
<br>
BTW this is not just about current Fedora users. Marketing is mainly<br>
about potential users.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sure -=A0</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
</div>Well, as someone has already said here: stability and reliability are=
<br>
relative terms. I used Arch Linux for a while and I didn't find it<br>
stable and reliable on the level where I'd like to see Fedora. If you<b=
r>
have to read release notes before every update to make sure you know<br>
what might break and how to fix it, then you're not using a system that=
<br>
would be appealing to a large number of user. And Fedora has always been<br=
>
aiming much broader audience than Gentoo or Arch.<br></blockquote><div><br>=
</div><div>Generally speaking for arch linux you don't get "releas=
e notes" for packages as such - and for the most part a regular update=
merely requires the following command:</div>
<div><br></div><div>#pacman -Syu</div><div><br></div><div>then accept or re=
ject running the set of updates that is offered. Not a big deal - now and a=
gain there is an announcement on arch-announce (also on their main web page=
) which says run the following command (or two!) before the next update or =
similar - hardly a major hassle every few months.</div>
<div>=A0</div><div>It's true that for my Fedora boxes I just have to ru=
n:</div><div><br></div><div>#yum -y update</div><div><br></div><div>or=A0</=
div><div><br></div><div>#yum update and then accept or reject the set of up=
dates offered - much the same really.</div>
<div><br></div><div>however for F16 which is current I don't have the l=
atest KDE, or the latest systemd, or the latest libreoffice etc - which I d=
o on my arch boxes. For any user that does not mind having KDE work OK but =
not with the latest round of bug fixes and new features it is fine. Similar=
with the other packages. Chrome is not offered as mainline by either distr=
o but on Fedora google has a yum repo - so I run the latest chrome just fin=
e on F16 - and in arch there is the latest via the AUR system so I run the =
latest chrome there too. But I won't have to run any re-install on the =
arch boxes whereas in order to keep my F16 boxes supported I will have to r=
e-install around the end of the year. I know there are constant reminders f=
rom people who say they have never re-installed and just preupgrade but my =
own experience with that around the F9 timeframe was really poor - and I en=
ded up doing a sequence of manual steps along with various yum upgrades/upd=
ates and kept a box going through two releases before deciding that a clean=
install was about the only sensible way forward at that time - maybe it is=
really quite trouble free updating from one release to another these days =
- so maybe my F16 boxes could be upgraded nice and easy to F17 and F18 with=
only a few commands and a bit of a wait - but I am not convinced it is wor=
th the risk as one of them is a server!</div>
<div>=A0</div></div>So it is "horses for courses" - I have two co=
urses and a number of horses and so far none of the horses have died!<br cl=
ear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>mike c<br>
</div>
--e0cb4efe2f12f7102d04cdbefaf5--
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