F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

[Denys Vlasenko]

On 07/17/2013 03:39 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Wed, 17.07.13 14:36, Denys Vlasenko (dvlasenk at redhat.com) wrote:
> 
>>> instead of administrators simply adding rsyslog or syslog-ng manually
>>> at install time or to their ks snippets.
>>
>> And this too was answered several times already.
>> The machine in question may be already borked.
>> Our support people will need to figure out -
>> over the phone or email! - what has happened on client's
>> installation, and having traditional grep/sed/awk
>> recipes not working anymore because /var/log/messages
>> is not there anymore is an extremely unwelcome discovery
>> in an emergency.
>>
>> You guys aren't administrators who are dealing with
>> these problems every day. You don't feel the pain
>> you create for other people.
> 
> Again:
> 
> "cat /var/log/messages" becomes "journalctl"
> "tail -f /var/log/messages" becomes "journalctl -f"
> "tail -n100 /var/log/messages" becomes "journalctl -n100"
> "grep foobar /var/log/messages" becomes "journalctl | grep foobar"

We understand your point. We are not THAT stupid, you know.

Try to understand ours.

Text log was used for troubleshooting for decades already.
In an emergency, text log is more easily accessible -
in some severe cases, "recoverable" is a better word -
than a binary one.

I don't understand why you are on a crusade to remove stuff
which works, even after people conceded to your desire
to have binary logs.

Now you are trying to push people to have ONLY binary logs.