Summary of accepted Fedora 20 Changes - week 30

[Reindl Harald]

Am 27.07.2013 21:31, schrieb Michael Scherer:
> Le samedi 27 juillet 2013 à 12:54 +0200, Reindl Harald a écrit :
>>
>> Am 27.07.2013 12:45, schrieb drago01:
>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Nicolas Mailhot
>>>>> Even if we do that ... for most of those user this mails are mostly noise.
>>>>
>>>> Where are the facts backing this assertion?
>>>
>>> Common sense ... 
>>
>> so i am maintaing more than 20 fedora machines and i am
>> happy about this mails from my *first day* with Fedora
>> many years ago
> 
> Sure, so that's 1 person. No, find just a bit more and we will start to
> be able to have proper data instead of anecdote.

5 others around me...........
in fact anybody *i know* weho is using Linux

> I can tell that most of the non technical users ( around 40 in my
> office, but I have no reason to believe the 1960 in others offices are
> different on that part ) using linux desktop at work ask me why they
> receive mail everyday speaking of the backup system not being configured
> ( and so mailling them to enable it )

perfect - so why does the admin not his job and configure or remove it?
there you see *why* the mails are good *because* they ask

> Most have no idea why they receive mail from the computer

most have no idea about anything on computers
but if they face things they can understand them

with remove anything "most have no idea" you can
remove the whole operating syetem at all

> A mail sent by your computer to say something on a regular basis is not,
> except for technical person like you and me ( and usually, when I
> receive mail from cron, they are obscure and useless and due to some
> failure, so I think people writing cron job do not care that much to
> help me seeing what is is wrong ).

i can not remember any cron mail which was not clear
in doubt Google is everybody's friend

>>> where are the facts backing up the opposite?
>>
>> nobody needs to backing up the opposite!
>>
>> if somebody comes up and and declares long existing
>> things as noise and wants to deprecate them he is
>> the one who has to bring facts
> 
> cron output is usually not translated ( cause it is well know that every
> admin speak english, why should we take care of that ), and that's
> already a problem. 

really?

> A mail do not permit a good interaction ( like "click here to configure
> stuff that you should configure" ) while a notification permit that ( at
> least on a desktop )

i doubt that a desktop notify permits the user admin-actions
and if so which ones so that i can file a bugreport

> There is no rate limitation for cronjob output. Usually, no need to send
> me 100 mails about "job error, no disk space", I got the message on the
> first mail, the 99th are just useless spam that also contribute to the
> problem. 

if you really got the message you would have took action

> AFAIK, you cannot easily ( ie, without being minimaly command line savy
> ) opt out of the mail notification, except by filtering that on your
> mail

you *should not* opt out
if smartd or mdadm are sending mails you should look at it

> For a desktop use case with a single user, that's already enough reasons
> to use something else. For a desktop with more than 1 user, the issue
> are the same, except that now, someone has to configure the email of
> every user in /etc/aliases, thus needing more than a anaconda patch. 

the user type you are describing all the time has no
user cronjobs at all and the root-messages are for
whoever calls himself admin and responsible for the
machine

> And for servers, having 2 ways to get logs of what is running is just
> asking for more work than needed. When you setup something to aggregate
> the log ( splunk, central syslog ), there is no need to have a second
> system that send a different type of log on a different way, just
> because "this was done like this before". 2 systems, twice the risk of
> failing, twice the work to setup, and of course, they do not match on
> feature

do you watch all day long syslog of all machines?
i do not because i have no time to do so and no place for so many terminals

*but* any cronjob mail put via sieve in his folder get attention
hence if my scripts are facing something is going wrong they
simple echo what is wrong because i can rely that it ends in
a notify-mail instead get spotted tomorrow

thats why i can work this clean way running 600 domains with
php error_reporting E_ALL and twice a hour collect the error
log and echo it for a notify - well that is not the desktop case
*but* if i had not seen this all at the desktop i would probably
not know these things now

there are *many* things which got "deperecated" from mostly the same
people which are the reason i am doing today the job i do and without
them i stil would be only programmer and not sysadmin and *that*
is why IMHO it is completly wrong to remove things from which others
could learn the same as i did

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 263 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/attachments/20130727/88aa8eb1/attachment.sig>