Bad file access on the rise

Lennart Poettering mzerqung at
Sun Jun 9 15:27:18 UTC 2013

On Sat, 08.06.13 11:35, Adam Williamson (awilliam at wrote:

> On Sat, 2013-06-08 at 09:25 -0400, Steve Grubb wrote:
> > Its not quite like this. What I need is the OS to be well behaved under normal 
> > conditions so that when problems come along they are easily spotted. Fedora 
> > has been a fairly well behaved OS over the years. I have had to get a few apps 
> > fixed in the past and the maintainers have always been accommodating. But this 
> > time I am finding we have a serious problem worse than in the past.
> Well, you're defining something as 'bad behaviour' fairly arbitrarily -
> or at least controversially: not everyone agrees with your definition.
> Continuing to simply assert that the behaviour is bad is not driving the
> conversation forward, you're just repeating a position that others have
> already raised objections to. Those who are disputing your position are
> not saying 'this behaviour is not happening', they are saying 'we
> disagree with your definition of "bad behaviour"'.
> If it's not 'bad behaviour', the fact that it didn't happen before is
> fairly irrelevant. I could come up with any arbitrary 'test' for some
> action that Fedora 19 does that Fedora 18 does not; that doesn't mean I
> can then show up on the list waving my test results about and declaring
> that there's a problem. First there has to be solid agreement that I'm
> actually testing for something we shouldn't be doing.

Actually it's worse than that. What Steve proposes as a programming
style is something I'd consider actively bad, something that leads to
less secure, racy code. 

And then, I totally don't like this alarmist sound to it, I mean,
nothing really changed in PA in the past 5 years, so I really fail to
see what this is all about... There isn't any new "trend" I could see


Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.

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