Improving the Fedora boot experience

[Ryan Lerch]

On 03/12/2013 02:24 PM, Brian Wheeler wrote:
> On 03/12/2013 02:03 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>> On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:35 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Am 12.03.2013 17:32, schrieb Chris Murphy:
>>>> On Mar 12, 2013, at 6:02 AM, Jiří Eischmann <eischmann at redhat.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> New kernels bring a lot of
>>>>> regressions and we don't have enough test coverage to avoid them. The
>>>>> general solution to those problems is to go back to the last working
>>>>> kernel version. But by making it less obvious we make these frequent
>>>>> problems more difficult to solve.
>>>> This is completely specious. A user who considers falling back to an
>>>> older kernel as a troubleshooting step also knows how this selection
>>>> is made and where to go look for it
>>> THIS IS WRONG
>> Oh really?
>
> Yes, it is wrong.  We're not talking about just new users here. If 
> you're going to hide how to select a different kernel, how am I, an 
> experienced sysadmin supposed to figure it out when things go south?
>
> F18 screwed my computer royally with regards to sleep & restore and I 
> had to boot older kernels to get the machine stable.   As it stands, 
> there were a list of kernels I chose the upper most one which didn't 
> have problems...under what people are proposing I'd have to google it 
> on some other machine or just mash the keyboard and hope I find 
> something that gives me some options
>
> I don't know why people are so enamored by making it difficult to 
> troubleshoot problems.
>
I know it is a simplification, but to me, the two sides of this argument 
are:

* remove the hood of the car, and keep it off in case something goes 
wrong, or to entice new drivers to look in there and guess what is going on.
* keep the hood of the car on, and if something goes wrong, pop it. If 
the driver wants to tweak, or have a look around let them pull the lever 
and pop the hood.

--ryanlerch