Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2013-05-01)

Toshio Kuratomi a.badger at
Wed May 1 18:56:19 UTC 2013

#fedora-meeting: FESCO (2013-05-01)

Meeting started by abadger1999 at 18:00:06 UTC. The full logs are
available at

Meeting summary
* init process  (abadger1999, 18:00:11)

* #1110 systemd preset for ipmi  (abadger1999, 18:02:28)
  * LINK:
    (abadger1999, 18:06:56)
  * ACTION: abadger1999 to ask for clarification in the ticket
    (abadger1999, 18:13:40)

* #1111 systemd preset for ipmievd  (abadger1999, 18:14:11)
  * ACTION: abadger1999 will ask for clarification on this ticket
    similar to 1110  (abadger1999, 18:23:56)

* Clarify release name guidelines - Explicitly list blacklisted
  characters  (abadger1999, 18:24:00)
  * Update release name guidelines to explicitly blacklist  | & ; ( ) <
    > { } ' " #  passes (+1:6, 0:0, -1:0)  (abadger1999, 18:26:59)

* Next week's chair  (abadger1999, 18:27:07)
  * ACTION: jwb will chair nextweek's meeting  (abadger1999, 18:29:19)

* Open Floor  (abadger1999, 18:29:27)

Meeting ended at 18:46:25 UTC.

Action Items
* abadger1999 to ask for clarification in the ticket
* abadger1999 will ask for clarification on this ticket similar to 1110
* jwb will chair nextweek's meeting

Action Items, by person
* abadger1999
  * abadger1999 to ask for clarification in the ticket
  * abadger1999 will ask for clarification on this ticket similar to
* jwb
  * jwb will chair nextweek's meeting
  * (none)

People Present (lines said)
* abadger1999 (43)
* nirik (22)
* jwb (20)
* mitr (13)
* sgallagh (12)
* pjones (10)
* zodbot (7)
* suehle (3)
* notting (3)
* gholms (1)
* mmaslano (0)
* t8m (0)

Meeting Log

18:00:06 <abadger1999> #startmeeting FESCO (2013-05-01)
18:00:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May  1 18:00:06 2013 UTC.  The
chair is abadger1999. Information about MeetBot at
18:00:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea
#link #topic.
18:00:08 <abadger1999> #meetingname fesco
18:00:08 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
18:00:09 <abadger1999> #chair abadger1999 jwb mitr mmaslano notting
nirik pjones t8m sgallagh
18:00:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 jwb mitr mmaslano nirik
notting pjones sgallagh t8m
18:00:11 <abadger1999> #topic init process
18:00:16 <pjones> morning, party people.
18:00:25 * notting is here
18:00:26 <jwb> hello
18:00:52 <mitr> Hello
18:00:56 <abadger1999> Good morning everyone, time for another fun and
exciting fesco meeting :-)
18:01:08 <nirik> hello
18:01:13 <sgallagh> Ciao
18:01:55 <abadger1999> Well, that's seven, enough for quorum
18:02:26 <abadger1999> Pretty light schedule today:
18:02:28 <abadger1999> #topic #1110 systemd preset for ipmi
18:02:30 <abadger1999> .fesco 1110
18:02:31 <zodbot> abadger1999: #1110 (systemd preset for ipmi) –
18:04:31 * notting attempts to parse this. he wants to install his own
preset file based on the presence of hardware?
18:04:38 <sgallagh> So I'm not sure why this is coming to FESCo
18:05:13 <sgallagh> I don't see any indication that he's approached
the maintainers of OpenIPMI or systemd about this.
18:05:41 <nirik> .bug 728436
18:05:42 <zodbot> nirik: Access Denied -
18:05:45 <nirik> nice
18:05:53 <mitr> sgallagh: He is a maintainer of OpenIPMI
18:06:18 <mitr> the maintainer, even
18:06:26 <sgallagh> ok
18:06:56 <abadger1999>
18:07:00 <sgallagh> I still don't quite understand what he's asking
for, or what exception he's seeking.
18:07:11 <abadger1999> OpenIPMI, freeipmi, and ipmitool
18:07:33 <sgallagh> Is he basically just asking for permission to
autostart a daemon?
18:08:51 <mitr> to load modules, or whatever
18:09:17 <mitr> Isn't this covered by the first sentence in as "up to
individual maintainer" already?
18:10:13 <mitr> "Except this proposal violates
​ by taking
back it's preset management" ... I have no idea what that means I'm
afraid (and I didn't ask, my bad)
18:10:30 * nirik is also somewhat confused as to exactly what they
want to do here.
18:11:38 <nirik> so, perhaps we should ask them more specifically what
they wish?
18:11:53 <nirik> or, are they on irc anywhere?
18:12:47 <mitr> Today is a holiday in Czech republic, AFAICS he isn't online
18:12:53 <nirik> ok
18:13:05 <pjones> yeah, I think we just have to get him to explain further
18:13:23 <abadger1999> k.  i'll ask him to clarify what he wants
18:13:25 <pjones> Possibly with a note that if none of us can figure
out what he's asking, we're going to lean towards denying the request
18:13:40 <abadger1999> #action abadger1999 to ask for clarification in
the ticket
18:14:00 <nirik> perhaps ask for a diff of specific changes they want?
18:14:06 <abadger1999> <nod>
18:14:11 <abadger1999> #topic #1111 systemd preset for ipmievd
18:14:13 <abadger1999> .fesco 1111
18:14:14 <zodbot> abadger1999: #1111 (systemd preset for ipmievd) –
18:14:22 <abadger1999> Another request from the same maintainer.
18:15:07 <nirik> depends on the last ticket too
18:15:30 <abadger1999> Overall question -- are systemd presets
supposed to be managed by packages?
18:15:46 <mitr> Per it is
18:15:48 <nirik> we never got too clear an answer.
18:15:53 <nirik> or at least I don't recall one
18:16:05 <abadger1999> I thought default enable/disable was managed a
different way in packages and presets were for distro/spin level
18:16:17 <nirik> see
18:16:26 <mitr> (we didn't get any _useful_ results out of presets
because the spin policy hasn't been written)
18:16:39 * nirik nods.
18:17:17 <mitr> abadger1999: The
macros don't let packages specify enabled/disabled
18:18:16 <abadger1999> mitr: " Services can either be enabled or
disabled by default. To determine which case your specific service
falls into, please refer to FESCo's policy here:
Starting_services_by_default." ?
18:18:25 <nirik> well, I thought the idea was central default then
things like spins could ship their own
18:18:58 <gholms> nirik: Right, but we don't have a policy for spins
that want to ship their own yet.
18:19:05 <mitr> Perhaps that both of the tickets should actualy be
filed against systemd in bugzilla, but at least the #1110 is unclear
enough that I'd rather wait for clarification
18:19:17 <mitr> abadger1999: See the paragraph starting "If your
package includes one or more systemd units that need to be enabled by
default on package installation, they need to be covered by the
default Fedora preset policy."
18:19:17 <pjones> perhaps we should at least wait for the other thing
to be clarified since this is clearly related
18:19:23 <pjones> mitr: exactly
18:19:34 <nirik> gholms: yep.
18:21:07 <abadger1999> mitr: ah I think I see what you're saying.
18:21:36 <abadger1999> so one thing I should say in the tickets is
that packages do not add their own presets.
18:21:49 <abadger1999> they get placed into one ofthe existing presets
18:22:37 <abadger1999> and the maintainer might need to re-architect
the way his autodetection works to make that possible.
18:23:26 <abadger1999> anyhow... sounds like this one can't be
approved without further info either.
18:23:56 <abadger1999> #action abadger1999 will ask for clarification
on this ticket similar to 1110
18:24:00 <abadger1999> #topic Clarify release name guidelines -
Explicitly list blacklisted characters
18:24:07 <pjones> We meant: | & ; ( ) < > { } ' " #
18:24:15 <pjones> And we are deeply remorseful that the manual for the
shell treats tokenization points and operators as the same thing.
18:24:40 <abadger1999> <nod>
18:24:42 * nirik nods. fine with me. typing this line is already more
than I care about this topic. ;)
18:25:30 <abadger1999> Proposal: Update guideline to explicitly list
out the bad characters:    | & ; ( ) < > { } ' " #
18:25:32 <abadger1999> +1
18:25:35 <pjones> +1
18:25:36 <sgallagh> +1
18:25:42 <jwb> +1
18:25:59 <notting> +1
18:25:59 <nirik> +1
18:26:18 <abadger1999> That's 6, proposal passes.  I'll update the page
18:26:59 <abadger1999> #info Update release name guidelines to
explicitly blacklist  | & ; ( ) < > { } ' " #  passes (+1:6, 0:0,
18:27:07 <abadger1999> #topic Next week's chair
18:27:13 <abadger1999> Who wants the potato?
18:27:34 <jwb> i'll bite
18:29:01 <nirik> make sure you cook the potato... raw ones are not
that tasty. ;)
18:29:19 <abadger1999> #action jwb will chair nextweek's meeting
18:29:27 <abadger1999> #topic Open Floor
18:29:27 <jwb> i am secretly hoping a meeting won't be needed, but hey
18:29:31 <jwb> i have something
18:29:57 <abadger1999> You have the floor :-)
18:30:19 <jwb> so spot sent out a proposal for how the flock
conference schedule is going to work.  if that stands, they want a
member FESCo to help review proposals and set the schedule
18:30:36 <jwb> review talk/hackfest/etc proposals that is
18:30:49 <jwb> if nobody else is interested in doing that, i'll volunteer
18:30:55 <jwb> thoughts?
18:31:07 * nirik is happy to have jwb do it. Hope there's lots of good proposals
18:31:40 <abadger1999> I could volunteer too but if we only need one
I'm happy for jwb to do it :-)
18:31:59 <sgallagh> Ditto with abadger1999
18:32:12 <sgallagh> Has flock nailed down a date yet?
18:32:34 <jwb> afaik, not specifically.  "around the 9th of august" is
the best we have
18:32:43 <sgallagh> Also, where did he send out that proposal?
18:32:53 <jwb> flock-planning at lists
18:32:57 * sgallagh suspects it was on one or both of the remaining
mailing lists he hasn't subscribed to
18:33:26 <jwb> basically, spot, rbergeron, suehle, and one member from
the Board, FESCo, and FAMSCo
18:33:35 <jwb> to create the conference committee
18:34:05 <jwb> his post has not gathered a ton of feedback yet.  the
feedback it has gathered has been positive
18:34:25 <nirik> I think it's a reasonable idea...
18:34:26 <sgallagh> jwb: It might be worth expanding it to a more
heavily-subscribed list
18:34:58 * jwb wonders if spot is listening
18:35:04 <nirik> I suspect he was looking for feedback on the plan
before spreading it out to more lists, etc.
18:36:40 <jwb> anyway, that's all i had.  if someone REALLY wants to
be the FESCo rep, let me know.  otherwise i'll plan on it
18:38:18 <nirik> just as a reminder: there's a
outage starting at 21:00UTC today...
18:38:42 <jwb> REPRIEVE
18:38:48 <jwb> uh.. i mean...
18:38:49 * suehle chimes in with a lack of information about dates...
The College of Charleston is pushing back on the room reservations, so
we're trying to satisfy their needs. It's between orientation and
school starting, so it's a challenge.
18:39:09 <jwb> thanks suehle
18:40:11 <suehle> the intended time frame is around August 9-13
18:41:08 <pjones> August in Charleston.
18:41:10 <pjones> Wonderful.
18:41:36 <suehle> Better than January in Blacksburg IMO
18:42:22 <mitr> (Is Flock timing a FESCo topic?)
18:42:32 <abadger1999> mitr: it could sorta kinda be...
18:43:09 <jwb> not really.  i think we can close the meeting.
18:43:21 <abadger1999> but I think it would have to be something like:
no one on fesco/few of our packagers can attend at that time -- ask
flock-planning committee to reconsiderthe schedule.
18:43:36 <abadger1999> and I'd think the planning committee would
already have heard if that were the case.
18:44:34 * abadger1999 will close in 2 minutes if there's nothing further.
18:46:25 <abadger1999> #endmeeting

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