Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo Meeting (2013-05-15)

Bill Nottingham notting at
Wed May 15 19:33:04 UTC 2013

#fedora-meeting: FESCO (2013-05-15)

Meeting started by notting at 18:00:11 UTC. The full logs are available

Meeting summary
* init process  (notting, 18:00:18)

* #1098 F19 Features - Progress on Features 100% Complete  (notting,
  * AGREED: give dracut-hostonly and anaconda-newui-followup until next
    week to update status (+:7, -:0, 0:0)  (notting, 18:35:29)

* Next week's chair  (notting, 18:36:04)
  * nirik to chair 2013-05-22 meeting  (notting, 18:36:27)

* Elections  (notting, 18:36:45)
  * note that the FESCo nomination period is open through 2013-05-25
    (notting, 18:37:16)
  * 5 seats open (notting, jwb, nirik, pjones, t8m)  (notting, 18:38:03)

* Open Floor  (notting, 18:39:03)

Meeting ended at 18:44:39 UTC.

Action Items

Action Items, by person
  * (none)

People Present (lines said)
* notting (39)
* nirik (20)
* jwb (18)
* mitr (14)
* jreznik_z10 (12)
* abadger1999 (11)
* t8m (9)
* zodbot (7)
* mmaslano (5)
* pjones (4)
* sgallagh (0)

Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4

.. _`MeetBot`:
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18:00:11 <notting> #startmeeting FESCO (2013-05-15)
18:00:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 15 18:00:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is notting. Information about MeetBot at
18:00:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:15 <pjones> greetings.
18:00:18 <notting> #meetingname fesco
18:00:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
18:00:18 <notting> #chair abadger1999 jwb mitr mmaslano notting nirik pjones t8m sgallagh
18:00:18 <notting> #topic init process
18:00:18 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 jwb mitr mmaslano nirik notting pjones sgallagh t8m
18:00:20 <nirik> morning everyone.
18:01:12 <mmaslano> hi
18:01:19 <abadger1999> greetings
18:02:51 <mitr> Hello
18:04:37 <t8m> hello
18:05:06 <notting> i believe sgallagh was out today. so might as well get started
18:05:35 <notting> #topic #1098 F19 Features - Progress on Features 100% Complete
18:05:35 <notting> .fesco 1098
18:05:36 <zodbot> notting: #1098 (F19 Features - Progress on Features 100% Complete) – FESCo -
18:05:59 <notting> jreznik_z10?
18:06:20 * jreznik_z10 is on phone, typing slowly
18:06:30 <nirik> so, we have only 2 that aren't 100% right?
18:06:38 <notting> oh, *that* z10.
18:06:44 <nirik> anaconda followup and dracut hostonly.
18:06:45 <jreznik_z10> It looks pretty good,take a look on ticket
18:07:09 <jreznik_z10> I ping clumens but no reply yet
18:07:14 <jreznik_z10> Pinged
18:07:27 <jreznik_z10> Harald seems to be out
18:07:28 <pjones> I think he's pretty much given up talking to you.
18:07:47 <nirik> so, I would say we ask those two to rebase their pages based on whats landed/done now and move on.
18:08:05 <jreznik_z10> Pones, it could be :-)
18:08:23 <jreznik_z10> Nirik, yep
18:08:46 <t8m> nirik, +1
18:08:56 <notting> the dracut one doesn't list any items not done/fixed, so unsure why it's at 98%
18:09:11 <notting> the anaconda page hasn't been updated since march
18:09:25 <jwb> i suspect it won't be
18:09:55 <notting> jwb: ?
18:10:15 <mmaslano> why? they move track progress elsewhere?
18:11:10 <jwb> they've been pinged several times, right?  it hasn't been updated since march, right?  not sure why it would magically be updated now, or if it is why it wouldn't magically go to 100%
18:11:35 <mmaslano> that's an attitude
18:11:48 <nirik> well, ideally they could do one more update, set it to 100% and note the things that were landed.
18:11:55 <nirik> but I know, the world isn't ideal.
18:12:00 <mitr> ... if only for the release notes
18:12:06 <t8m> so the feature page should be dropped
18:12:14 <jwb> sure
18:12:34 <mmaslano> yes
18:12:41 <jreznik_z10> We need it for release notes with correct content
18:13:13 <t8m> don't we have also separate process for release notes? or am I confused with the new change process
18:13:23 <jwb> i don't think that's true.  you might need information, but you don't need a feature page
18:14:22 <jreznik_z10> The page is now the only source of current status
18:15:09 <nirik> so, would it help if some of us went thru changelogs and proposed an update to the feature page? or otherwise tried to help gather the info?
18:15:27 <jwb> jreznik_z10, no it's the only place with a (stale) summarized status
18:15:30 <t8m> if they are so irritated that it is a Feature page, they can describe the current status of anaconda on a separate place and relnotes can be created from there
18:15:33 <notting> nirik: no, because that's stupid.
18:15:56 * nirik shrugs. It wouldn't be fun, but what else should we do?
18:16:05 <jwb> just drop it
18:16:25 <nirik> the feature? or asking for an update?
18:16:37 <jwb> the feature page
18:16:54 <t8m> but that still leaves the problem with release notes
18:16:56 <jreznik_z10> I can try again to ask for an update
18:17:18 <jwb> i guess i'm fuzzy on what would be needed for release notes
18:17:44 <mitr> jreznik_z10: do I read comment#12 correctly that you have asked for status 2-3 days ago?  If so giving them one more week might not hurt, there's still time for release notes
18:18:25 <mitr> jwb: Good point, it's not clear how much of that needs to be spelled out in the release notes
18:18:26 <nirik> many of the items on the feature page list bugs... shouldn't it be pretty easy to see if they are closed or not?
18:18:32 <nirik> and yeah.
18:18:44 <notting> jwb: features described there included advanced storage, other partitioning changes, repo addition, text mode changes, kickstart changes... all of these are relevant to some combination of release notes and/or install guide
18:19:37 <jwb> notting, i... disagree.  advanced storage, sure.  but what are you going to put for partitioning changes in release notes?  "uh... we changed how partitioning works again.  try it!"
18:19:39 <jreznik_z10> Mitr: there's generic reminder one week before, than group reminder...
18:20:03 <jwb> notting, and text mode theoretically got expanded to just offer what graphics mode does.  people should just notice that
18:20:05 <jreznik_z10> Two days ago was pinging and asking the rest directly
18:20:16 <mitr> jreznik_z10: sorry, I should have checked myself
18:21:55 * nirik is fine waiting a bit more
18:22:48 <notting> proposal: give dracut-hostonly and anaconda-newui-followup until next week to update status
18:22:55 <mitr> Looking only at the things that are marked 100% now, what is relnote-worthy? "s-c-kickstart works again" perhaps?  what does absolutely need to be in the install guide? it seems nothing.
18:23:20 <jwb> notting, or what?
18:23:21 <t8m> notting, +1
18:23:42 <jwb> i'm not comfortable voting on that unless there's a clear action after 1 week.
18:24:20 * abadger1999 was thinking along the same lines as jwb
18:24:40 <mitr> jwb: or drop the feature from relnotes and announcements, what else is there?
18:25:27 <mitr> Given the current feature page I'm definitely +1 to giving dracut 1 more week; for anaconda I'd be fine with both giving them 1 more week and dropping it now (which is a slap on the wrist at best)
18:25:41 <abadger1999> With something that everyone uses like anaconda or dracut I don't know that dropping it from the relnotes is a good idea.
18:26:15 <jwb> i believe dracut is actually done.  harald is just out on vacation.
18:26:47 <abadger1999> Some features may feel that they've lost out on advertising... but everyone has to use anaconda and dracut so it's not like advertising affects how many Fedora users choose to use them.
18:26:50 <abadger1999> jwb: <nod>
18:27:00 <notting> jwb: abadger1999: we *can* drop the page if there's no response. i don't think that's really a *good* answer, but it's the only practical one. maintainers gotta maintain.
18:27:23 <abadger1999> I'd rather go with nirik's plan b.
18:28:34 <nirik> which? try and update based on changelog/testing?
18:28:49 <abadger1999> nirik: yeah -- just seems like it sucks less than the alternative.
18:29:14 <abadger1999> (of not announcing that anaconda has changed... but user's a re practically guaranteed to run into those changes).
18:29:56 <notting> i'm not really fond of that precedent
18:30:09 <nirik> it sure won't scale...
18:30:15 <t8m> notting, +1
18:30:20 <abadger1999> it truly will not scale.
18:30:46 <abadger1999> but the alternative to making the documentation match the program is to make the program match the documentation.... and I know we don't want to attempt that, right?
18:30:55 <mitr> notting: I'm not fond of it, but if nirik wants to volunteer to be a collaborator on the feature, who are we to stop him?
18:31:02 <mitr> "font of the precedent" that is
18:31:21 <notting> nirik: better be careful, we might start asking you to fix bugs
18:31:25 <mitr> abadger1999: I'm not sure how much really needs documenting; there might be the alternative to call the match good enough
18:31:28 <nirik> nooooooooooooooo! :)
18:31:32 <jwb> abadger1999, that seems a bit of a stretch.  i still think most of the changes listed will be self evident
18:31:51 <nirik> anyhow, lets wait a week and see if anyone in the know can update it?
18:32:32 <jwb> ok.  sure.
18:32:39 <jwb> +1 to notting's proposal
18:32:39 <t8m> +1 to wait a week
18:32:45 <jwb> there is always hope i guess.
18:32:53 <mitr> proposal: give dracut-hostonly and anaconda-newui-followup until next week to update status, and default to dropping the feature if nothing is updated
18:33:02 <mitr> (... to be explicit about what we plan)
18:33:08 <mitr> +1 to notting's proposal anyway
18:33:24 <mmaslano> +1 wait a week
18:33:25 <nirik> ok, sure, If it's not been updated by early next week I can offer to help
18:33:58 <notting> that's +6. pjones - for the record?
18:34:13 <pjones> sorry, got pulled out into another meeting
18:34:21 <pjones> I'm effectively absent at this point
18:34:32 <notting> ok
18:34:45 <notting> #agreed give dracut-hostonly and anaconda-newui-followup until next week to update status
18:34:46 <abadger1999> +1
18:35:21 <notting> #undo
18:35:21 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x246e0450>
18:35:29 <notting> #agreed give dracut-hostonly and anaconda-newui-followup until next week to update status (+:7, -:0, 0:0)
18:35:58 <notting> that's it on the schedule
18:36:04 <notting> #topic Next week's chair
18:36:06 <notting> volunteers?
18:36:15 <nirik> I've not done it in a while. I can
18:36:27 <notting> #info nirik to chair 2013-05-22 meeting
18:36:33 <notting> #topic Open Floor
18:36:42 <notting> #undo
18:36:42 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x275e8c50>
18:36:45 <notting> #topic Elections
18:37:16 <notting> #info note that the FESCo nomination period is open through 2013-05-25
18:37:34 * nirik foolishly tossed his hat in the ring again.
18:37:42 <jwb> undecided
18:38:03 <notting> #info 5 seats open (notting, jwb, nirik, pjones, t8m)
18:38:08 <notting> anything else for elections?
18:39:00 <notting> ok
18:39:03 <notting> #topic Open Floor
18:39:10 <notting> anything for open floor?
18:39:26 * nirik doesn't have anything off hand.
18:41:06 <notting> there's a ticket in the queue for next week's meeting about PIE-by-default and no prelink on x86_64. feel free to read it
18:42:35 <notting> if nothing else, will close the meeting in 2 minutes
18:44:39 <notting> #endmeeting

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