Draft Product Description for Fedora Workstation

Reindl Harald h.reindl at thelounge.net
Mon Nov 4 23:15:35 UTC 2013


Am 05.11.2013 00:06, schrieb Michael Scherer:
> Le lundi 04 novembre 2013 à 23:16 +0100, Reindl Harald a écrit :
>>
>> Am 04.11.2013 22:25, schrieb Stephen Gallagher:
>>> On 11/04/2013 04:01 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>>>> Huh? How is github relevant to an end user at all? They do not care
>>>> if the source code of their software comes from github, SourceForge
>>>> or some lone developer's HDD. They get it all from a distro.
>>>
>>> That's really not true any more in a world built on top of Ruby,
>>> Django, Node.js...
>>>
>>> In most cases, the people using these technologies don't use the
>>> distribution packages at all. They instead use 'rubgyem-install',
>>> 'easy_install/pip' and 'npm install'. The only thing they care about
>>> from the distro (sometimes!) is having those tools present
>>
>> who is "they"?
>> any countable numbers of "them"?
> 
> I guess that the same countable numbers we can see in  "they get it all
> from a distro". 

you are missing the fact that you or whoever proposes the
status quo needs to be changed has to prove why and not
the other way around

> If I may, I would suggest that being a bit more consistent in your
> critics would benefit your position.

i am more consistent than you imagine

if it ain#t broken don#t fix it
if it is wokring don't change it
if you say it is broken prove that it is broken before fix it

that is the way stable and for endusers good software is developed
not by change this and that and that also and look what happens by doing so

>> don't forget that you never have real numbers in case of a Linux
>> distribution and a few people telling you doing so is not "they"
>> in context of the real userbase
> 
> I was giving a talk at pycon.fr last week, and spend the 3 days
> discussing with people. Most people I discussed with ( coders and
> sysadmins alike ) were fully ok with using pip install, much to my
> dismay as a Fedora member. 

most likely these are the poeple re-install their systems every few years
i install a sytem once in 10 or 20 years or once for a lifetime
so far this works for 10 dist-upgrades
RPM and only RPm pakcages is a strong reason why this works

> And those are people that write free softwares, people who contribute to
> the whole ecosystem, and people we want to help to write more free
> software. 

oh, now you switch from "for the users" to "for the developers"
interesting

> maybe you think they do not matters and we shouldn't care and only focus
> on your usecase, but I would disrespectfully disagree, despites the
> energy you spent on this thread trying to restlessly convince people.

what is "my usecase"?

my usecase is a 100% clean and stable system with painless upgrades over years
which is working fine until careless people start to damage it and no you will
not gain that big enuders base if you force them to re-install from scratch
twice a year, nobody doing more than read mail and open a webbrowser with his
system can do this - and RPM and a consistent package system is the key for
a really consistent at all

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