communications and community [was Re: Lack of response about sponsorship]

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:08:09 +0200
Michael Schwendt <mschwendt at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:52:32 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> 
> > > A few years ago we've been much better at talking about things and
> > > coming to a conclusion. Nowadays I have the feeling "the
> > > community" is fragmented too much. With some people avoiding
> > > mailing-lists like the plague, some people lurking on IRC only,
> > > other people preferring web based forums, others addressing
> > > topics in personal blogs or during hallway meetings (and similar
> > > face-to-face situations).
> > 
> > I have this same feeling. I think we need to fix it; do you have any
> > thoughts or ideas as to how?
> 
> If people hate email lists in general (or the number of messages
> posted to them), it cannot be fixed.
> 
> As a first step, I suggest clearing up the intended usage of "devel"
> list. There's too much traffic on that list. 792 messages so far in
> October. Even if one uses filtering, the recurring task of skimming
> over the devel list folder is tiresome, since it's not the only list
> one is subscribed to. Not even meetings logs are posted to
> devel-announce list, however.

Good idea. What items could we move to announce that would be more
useful for folks that don't have as much time/energy to skim the main
list?

fesco meeting agenda/minutes? (note that this would be weekly, so
increase the announce list a good deal)
Any other things that would be better as announcements?

> The intended usage of "test" list has always been a problem. Once in a
> while, somebody points that out, but there's nobody (no leadership) to
> work on a change actively. Is it only for Test releases or also for
> Rawhide? Its description is vague. Is there not any "testing and
> quality assurance" for non-Test releases?

Well, it's always been clear to me... test list is for any
branched/rawhide issues. How can we improve the summary? 
Or does anyone disagree that that is the target?
 
> Why doesn't the "packager" group doesn't have an own list? Why is the
> description of the "packaging" list so brief and vague? Is it just me
> who cannot tell when to choose which list? [ This mailing list
> provides a discussion forum for RPM packaging standards and practices
> for Fedora. ]

What would the 'packager' list talk about? 'packaging' is about current
and changing packaging guidelines (ie, a list for the FPC). 
> 
> Where is a list that devotes to managing the Fedora Project and its
> multitude of policies and procedures? Such as the sponsorship process.
> The description of the "advisory-board" list is vague. Should it have
> been used for this thread instead of "devel"?

I would say that is the devel list. 
> 
> Does FESCo still use a non-public list?

There is a fesco private list, but it's very rarely used. In the past
it's been for things like someone saying they won't make the next
meeting or the like. Personally, I would prefer to just get rid of it. 

> What about the FPC? Are they limited to their IRC meetings? Why don't
> they talk about anything on "packaging" list?
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging_Committee#Discussions
> [ Discussion and decisions can also take place in the packaging
> mailing list. ]

They do/have in the past? I don't know why they haven't recently.. 
 
> Who is in charge of defining the sponsorship process?

FESCo.

> Who believes the current process doesn't work? 

At least a few folks on this thread I guess. 

> Does leadership think
> it doesn't work? Or is it only a few (frustrated?) package
> submitters, who don't want to attempt at contributing a single review
> in several months?

Not sure. I can only speak for myself, but I think we could do
better... the long delays where people aren't sure they should be doing
anything aren't good. 
> 
> In packagersponsors' trac I see sponsor request notification mails
> flying by, and becoming a co-maintainer even is one documented way to
> get sponsored. That part of the process works. In the review queue, I
> see that some submitters _do_ visit other tickets and comment on
> them, trying to learn about packaging for Fedora.
> Currently, I don't think much is wrong (or not working) with the
> sponsorship process. However, I'm not sure devel list is a good place
> for new contributors to get in contact with other packagers and
> potential sponsors. For example, there ought to be a list where
> advertising submitted review requests is officially permitted.

This list should be fine for those, IMHO. 

kevin
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