The Forgotten "F": A Tale of Fedora's Foundations

Miloslav Trma─Ź mitr at
Tue Apr 22 18:33:55 UTC 2014

2014-04-21 17:56 GMT+02:00 Eric H. Christensen <sparks at>:

> On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 08:36:55AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> > ...I'd
> > like to suggest a fifth Foundation, one to ultimately supersede all
> > the rest: "Functional".
> I think anytime anyone suggests a new foundation that supersedes all of
> what the project and community has stood for for many years then they are
> doing it wrong.

Well... I'd *much* rather have a honest discussion about the values like
this than just committing code without any discussions, and then arguing
that "we've been doing this for years at a small scale so it's fine to do
it on larger scale".  These things *should* be discussed mostly top-down,
not bottom-up.

And the recet-ish discussions have revealed that the practice and the
literal wording of the foundations *has* slightly diverged over time (both
First, and, at least in your view, WRT Google search, Freedom), so
revisiting, re-discussing, and re-affirming might be in order.

> I mean, Fedora has traditionally been very strong in upholding the values
> of FOSS.  We live it, feed it, and use it.  Does this mean that Fedora
> isn't always great when dealing with proprietary solutions later on (like
> Flash)?  Sure, but that also means that there is more of a push to get FOSS
> solutions in place that remedy those issues.  Fedora has never forebade a
> user to install third-party software (proprietary or otherwise) after the
> fact.  The fact that many (most?) users don't have to do such things is a
> testiment to how well FOSS has been developed and meets the needs of our
> users.

I find it difficult to believe that "most users" [don't have Flash
installed].  AFAIK there is no data to say either way, and anecdotal
evidence from around here isn't supportive.
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