general compliment for F19/F20

Reindl Harald h.reindl at
Sat Jan 25 21:22:05 UTC 2014

Am 25.01.2014 22:05, schrieb Haïkel Guémar:
> Le 25/01/2014 21:38, Reindl Harald a écrit :
>> first:
>> be sure after the style of replies like yours i will
>> hestitate try to make compilemts again in the public
>> because the aggresive way you react leads nowhere else
>> then flamewars
> I'd rather have you stop starting or feeding flamewars as you actively did this month than
> these kind of "compliments"

"as you actively did this month" - where?

>> wow - even if someone makes a compliment it is taken rude - impressive
>> the difference shortly before a new RHEL release is that the timeframe
>> is *much* more important for the RH folks than some random release
>> accept it or not - you can't change the facts - period
> You implied (and still imply) that most of the work is done by RH, belittling the
> volunteer contributors

*no i did not* you only read it like that

> Off course, Red Hat is an important stakeholder in Fedora, but they acknowledge that they're not
> the ones driving the project it's the community

yes, but they pay people to dedicate their full time and if that people
are doing bug-triage and only bug-triage for relevant components they
find more than a person working at free time for Fedora can do

not to belittle anybody
simply the fact a day has only 24 hours

> That's why we dropped along the "Core/extras" distinctions, that's why the effective technical leadership is
> handled by the Fesco (a true community body) and that's why we're still
> sponsored by Red Hat.
> But let's say that it was a naive statement from you

no, you only took it as abuse because you wanted to do so

> Remember that Fesco actually delayed systemd inclusion by one release for very same reason:
> "not to rush things".
> At that time, it worked perfectly fine and we could have included it.

one release too early, 100% for sure
systemd and oterh services working with it in F16 was somehow OK
the release state of F15 was completly unacceptable for anybody
outside the "my personal computer" area

> One funny thing is that without a community contributor (i mean JBG), the transition to systemd
> would have been much longer. No needs to wear a Red Hat to have an impact in Fedora.

again: my intention was *not* to belittle anybody

> So you wanted to compliment the community, why did you felt the need to end it by an
> unrelated statement about systemd?

because it *has* serious regressions in F20 which are acceptable
on a desktop, otehrwise i would not have written a mail woth the
subject "general compliment for F19/F20"

but hey are a problem on a server
sorry that i am one of them driving a lot of servers with Fedora and care baout

> Do you honestly think that if we continued with upstart and crappy sysV init scripts,
> we would have had less issues or less critical issues ?

where did i say that?

i only honestly know if MySQL and some other services would have been migrated
to systemd in the first release replace upstart i would not felt that often
tempted to throw all the IT out of the next windows and with F16 that things
where *mostly* fine while some services are still not converted or at least
where not a few months ago :-)

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