Maybe it's time to get rid of tcpwrappers/tcpd?

[Reindl Harald]

Am 24.03.2014 21:32, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
> On Mon, 24.03.14 20:59, Reindl Harald (h.reindl at thelounge.net) wrote:
> 
>> Am 24.03.2014 20:27, schrieb Jóhann B. Guðmundsson:
>>> But certain people seem to rather want to drown Fedora in bureaucracy and vague future proposals 
>>> and working groups instead of doing what needs to be done.
>>
>> no, certain people want to do something *useful* with their sytems and precious
>> time and not remove things and adopt changes with no good reason
>>
>> if you want to do worthful things go ahead as your QA job and clean systemd
>> especially the first one of the following list, they all hurt over months
>> and #1072368 comes back with the last systemd releases in Rawhide
> 
> You know, Harald, with your constant complaining you are just ensuring
> that people will ignore whatever you say

no more ignore is hardly possible
systemd in F19 was perfect
systemd in F20 is horrible from the view of a sysadmin

> For example, when I see a bug
> reported by you I put it at the very end of my TODO list, because I
> really don't want to deal with the constant complaints we are getting
> from you. 

if you would do your job better i would not have to complain

> You know, you are not dumb, and the stuff you post is often quite
> relevant to our work, but as long as you post this stuff the way you do
> the only thing you will achieve quickly is that we'll ignore what you
> say, and that you get moderated again on mailing lists like systemd-devel like
> you already got twice. That is a loss, since there are things in what
> you say that I find quite relevant. But jeesus, it's so frickin annoying
> to deal with you and your writings, you know that?

if it would not feel systemd upstream does not care what
happens left and right maybe the feedback would differnt

did you ever consider that?

>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1072368
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1010572
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=626477
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047148
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1024379
> 
> Quite frankly, these all are fixed upstream

upstream does not help in case of Fedora

if the number one downstream distribution can't manage them
upstream should consider that thigs are not working properly

> or relatively harmless

define harmless

* frozen terminals in case of reboot remote servers is not harmless
* burry relevant messages in a permanent flood is not harmless

> things like where you'd prefer us to generate less log messages. Making
> such a fuss about these things is way over the top. Not a single one of
> these you posted is about actual functionality bugs not getting fixed
> upstream.

if you ever would have managed 10, 20, 30 servers where you do
things like distribute-command "cat /var/log/messages" and expect
to not get burried by irrelevant notices your point of view would
be different

the problem is that you insist in journald and filtering while
you refuse to understand larger setups

> Please try to understand that things like this don't get the highest
> priority on our TODO list. Also, you don't have the privilige of being
> entitled to get your own private bugs fixed immeidately, really

i understand that, but you need to understand the reaction because
in fact i do not take anybody serious not face things like
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1010572 after the
first boot - why? because that means the person never looks at
his logs, serious sysadmins do

> Yes, it would be nice if we fix them, but open source is really not 
> just about you demanding things and we giving it to you

you don't get the point

systemd in F19 is working perfect
systemd in F20 is horrible

i do not demand to introduce all that things which are the reason
for now i not consider to upgrade any production machine to F20

> It's a two way street, so instead of all the negative energy you spend 
> bitching about things, how about actually doing something really constructive, 
> figuring out a patch or so, for the relevant things, and submitting that?

and that is the problem with you attitude

* making changes left and right
* not care about the impact of users
* demand users to chew the reuslt or fix it themslef


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