systemd-219 issues with 22 and Rawhide composes

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Lennart Poettering
<mzerqung at 0pointer.de> wrote:
> On Fri, 20.02.15 16:24, Peter Robinson (pbrobinson at gmail.com) wrote:
>
>> >> > Sorry for the inconvenience and feel free to add bugs to the tracker, which are
>> >> > caused by systemd changes and have to be fixed in other components.
>> >>
>> >> Are you going to start notifying deve@ of upcoming changes that may
>> >> impact other areas of the distro too rather than just land them
>> >> without notification or discussion?
>> >
>> > Oh god, stop this, will you?
>>
>> No, I mean the above in general for general changes you make that
>> affect the distro as a whole. You generally land them without
>> notification.
>
> I "generally" do that? Can you be more precise?
>
>> > The folks in question knew I would drop the patch. In the original bug
>> > I even said I would remove the work-around from systemd.rpm after TC1
>> > of the last cycle. I was nice, left it in for the whole cycle, only
>> > dropped it now.
>>
>> Yes, and it looks like it affects dhcpd too... just because you
>> notified one dev team on a single bug it's not the same as a wider
>> announcement to the wider community. There's all sorts of things that
>> this can affect, and while yes it may be a bug in their software, it
>> should be as widely notified as possible. People have priorities that
>> may not be the same as yours.
>
> Hey! Come on. Everything that systemd does is create a symlink for
> /etc/resolv.conf if nothing else has created on for that. If something
> else created and owned that file, it leaves the thing alone. That's
> all. It's very defensively written. Anaconda's file copy routine
> tripped up on it though, since it follows symlinks on the destination
> (which is a really bad idea, and needs to be fixed).

You do not know, and cannot know in advance without testing, how many
different systems might manipulate or rely on specific resolv.conf
changes. This is especially true for VPN based environments where the
order of DNS resolvers is critical to correct local and general
environment resolution. Puppet, cfengine, chef, tuttle, and many
virtualization systems such manipulate entire network stacks by either
stabilizing them or resetting them. And now they have to manipulate
/etc/resolv.conf as a symlink?

It's one of the systemd problems: "We know better than the last 30
years of UNIX work how this should be, and will take it over with our
own unique, new paradigm."

>> > How many months would you like me to notify people in advance of a
>> > simple change like this? Isn't 6 month *ample* time?
>>
>> Likely not, not everyone has the same schedule as upstream systemd, in
>> a lot of cases they don't know it's broken until things land and teams
>> have other priorities.
>
> OK, got it, will let everybody know now of changes 5 years in
> advance. Would that suit your needs?

Only telling "the people who need to know" is the problem. You
apparently think you know, personally, who those people are. That's
not safe or fair to other developers or even to normal admins.

For example, now if I manipulate /etc/resolv.conf for whatever reason,
and I edit it with "vi" or a management tool like "chef" that is
unaware of symlinks, I'll break the link. Will systemd correctly
re-establish the link? Will it wipe out my change, Did anyone even
*think* about this?

> Anyway, I have the suspicion you just want to make a fuss, and this is
> where it ends for me hence.

And this is the other reason people don't trust your project. Systemd
feature growth has been pretty pedal to the metal. Even if the new
model is *better* in terms of your or your group's network
configuration paradigms, it requires breaking long stable workflows
and configurations.