Proposed plan for the Virtualization Getting Started Guide
Glen Rundblom
glen at rundblom.com
Wed Mar 18 18:12:40 UTC 2015
On 03/18/2015 02:36 AM, Corey Sheldon wrote:
> @ Glen,
>
> I'll take a long look today and tomorrow and edit or comment on where
> /what can be added for you, as I agree the libvirt /boxes guides are
> a bit "too techy biased" and/or a bit dated
>
> Corey W Sheldon
> Freelance IT Consultant, Multi-Discipline Tutor
> (p) 310.909.7672
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>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 1:22 AM, Dayle Parker <dayleparker at redhat.com
> <mailto:dayleparker at redhat.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Sandra,
>
> Thanks for the feedback! A bit of background and links below...
>
> On 03/18/2015 06:31 AM, Sandra McCann wrote:
>> Thanks Dayle!
>>
>> I took a look at your RHEL quickstart and the flow is quite
>> similar to what I'm proposing. I had a few comments:
>>
>> - yum install - does RHEL support yum groupinstall? That's what
>> I was going to document instead of the individual installs. I
>> have a small section after that to describe what some of the
>> packages do (for the curious newbie :-)
>>
> Yes, RHEL does support yum groupinstall - that might indeed be
> simpler. Here's the RHEL virt package groups, in case it helps.
> I'm not sure if they're the same in Fedora:
>
> https://access.redhat.com/site/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/html/Virtualization_Deployment_and_Administration_Guide/sect-Installing_the_virtualization_packages-Installing_virtualization_packages_on_an_existing_Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux_system.html
>
> Great idea on providing a little bit of info on those packages for
> the more curious :)
>
>> - screencaps - I debated this one and was leaning toward only
>> having one or two for virt-manager. Most of the steps are obvious
>> when you look at the virt-manager gui, so I thought I could get
>> away with less images to create/maintain. That said, your
>> approach makes it very obvious what screen the user should be on,
>> so now I'm waffling on which approach to take.
>
> Agreed, fewer screenshots is always better from a maintenance
> perspective. I wasn't sure either how many to include, but went
> for the whole set of them, just to be extra clear -- also it's
> what we had in the Virt Deployment and Admin Guide. The "New VM"
> wizard screenshots probably aren't necessary, they're more like an
> assurance for the user that they're in the right spot.
>
>>
>> - other options to spin up a VM - I mention some of the other
>> options in a list, just so the newbie user is aware. I figure
>> only virt-manager and boxes will actually be covered in detail,
>> and the rest would be in the admin/deploy guide.
>>
> Nice. Yeah, originally I planned on including some basic commands,
> but I decided against it for the Getting Started Guide so as to
> not confuse brand new users with too many options.
>
>> - boxes - I'm guessing this is only in Fedora, not RHEL?
>> Anyway, I'm leaning toward having boxes as the first procedure to
>> cover, since it's installed by default in Fedora workstation,
>> where the newbie user is. Then a separate chapter for virt-manager.
>
> That makes sense. Boxes is in RHEL actually, but didn't seem like
> a feature an enterprise user would use much, so we opted for a
> short Boxes description in the Getting Started Guide, and a
> chapter in the VDAG (below). Is Boxes used extensively by Fedora
> users?
>
> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/html-single/Virtualization_Getting_Started_Guide/index.html#sect-Virtualization_Getting_Started-Tools-Boxes
>
> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/html/Virtualization_Deployment_and_Administration_Guide/sect-Graphic_User_Interface_tools_for_guest_virtual_machine_management-GNOME_Boxes.html
>
> Hope that helps a bit. :)
> Cheers,
> Dayle
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sandra
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 10:16 PM, Dayle Parker
>> <dayleparker at redhat.com <mailto:dayleparker at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Sandra,
>>
>> Thanks for initiating this! I help maintain this guide for
>> RHEL and have sadly been too busy lately to get very involved
>> on the Fedora side of things. :(
>>
>> I've been also looking at whether this book has the right
>> user in mind for RHEL, and I think currently it's aimed at
>> too many types of users -- I agree, the novice/GUI focus
>> sounds best. I think some of this guide gets pretty technical
>> and detailed in parts, and is probably not needed for a
>> novice user.
>>
>> I've actually added a quick start chapter to the end of the
>> guide [1] for RHEL7, so if you want to use any of it (the
>> content is under the
>> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ license), go
>> for it. (Or if you have any feedback on that chapter as a
>> novice, feel free to share).
>>
>> Also, let me know if you need any help with the project -- I
>> really appreciate you taking it on, and I'm happy to
>> contribute in little bits if I can!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dayle
>>
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/html/Virtualization_Getting_Started_Guide/chap-Virtualization_Getting_Started-Quickstart.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 03/17/2015 11:03 AM, Glen Rundblom wrote:
>>> I agree with the plan, and I am happy that Sandra proposed
>>> this direction. I have been thinking of how to word my Boxes
>>> guide: is this a how-to manual, or just just technical
>>> instructions. For me: I learn more from how-to manuals and
>>> branch into technical details as I need them. Also, working
>>> with the Novice in mind makes me think of the "what if the
>>> person does not see..." or "what if they encounter that" and
>>> try to solve issues they may encounter as they try to do the
>>> task, but may not have the ability to troubleshoot an issue
>>> that just happened during the process.
>>>
>>> Also, writing for Novices/How-to is more forgiving of first
>>> and second person voicing, which I have a tendency to do.
>>>
>>> So I have been working with the mindset of a how-to manual
>>> for someone beginning with the application, because I am
>>> learning the application, publican, docbook, git, mailing
>>> lists, and Linux all together!)
>>>
>>> I have this conception that the more friendly and built for
>>> novices something is, the more solid and polished it seems.
>>> I am more then willing to put more time and work to make to
>>> do that.
>>>
>>> So, thank you Sandra!
>>>
>>> -Glen
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03/16/2015 05:51 PM, Pete Travis wrote:
>>>> On 03/16/2015 02:28 PM, Sandra McCann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi folks -
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We’ve been batting around ideas for the virtualization
>>>>> guides for a bit now in irc, but I’d like to get some more
>>>>> feedback on the approach we can take.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems there are two personas involved. Using our draft
>>>>> personas
>>>>> <https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Focus#Personas>we
>>>>> have :
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> Technical Tony - experienced IT person virtualizing on
>>>>> servers etc, knows his stuff and is spinning up VMs
>>>>> like they’re candy.
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> Novice Ned (or Novice Nancy in my case :-) - Fairly
>>>>> new to virtualization, and looking to spin up a VM or
>>>>> two for her own work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Given these two personas, I’d like to suggest that the
>>>>> Virtualization Getting Started guide be targeted to Novice
>>>>> Nancy. To do this we would:
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> Add an installing virtualization tools chapter -
>>>>> simple effort to install the virtualization group
>>>>> package and bring up virt-manager. (smccann)
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> Add an ‘Creating Guests with Virt-Manager chapter -
>>>>> copying from here
>>>>> <http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora_Draft_Documentation/0.1/html/Virtualization_Deployment_and_Administration_Guide/chap-Virtualization_Host_Configuration_and_Guest_Installation_Guide-Guest_Installation_Virt_Manager-Creating_guests_with_virt_manager.html>.
>>>>> (smccann)
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> Adding a ‘Creating Guests with Boxes chapter (grundblom)
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> Make minor edits as needed to remove Fedora 19
>>>>> references and any references (if present) to a larger
>>>>> set of virtualization guides that may not be available
>>>>> as F21 guides yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I also had one question -
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> not sure what to do about the list of emulated devices
>>>>> - is it accurate?
>>>>> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/19/html/Virtualization_Getting_Started_Guide/sec-virtualized-hardware-devices.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I’d like to get the getting started done and
>>>>> committed before considering the Admin and Deploy guide
>>>>> (because..ahem.. I AM Novice Nancy here and it will take
>>>>> longer for me to parse that guide).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sandra
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> This seems like a solid plan to me. There's a lot of
>>>> content in the guide now that's reads strictly as a launch
>>>> point for the larger guides, so something more like purging
>>>> paragraphs might be more appropriate than simply removing
>>>> references. You have a good idea of where you want to go
>>>> with it; I only make that point to ensure you don't feel
>>>> obligated to keep the existing content and write around it.
>>>>
>>>> The hardware list is accurate, but not complete. You might
>>>> want to focus on a few specific pieces of hardware instead
>>>> of listing and explaining all possible options though, ie:
>>>>
>>>> This is how you add a network device. This virtio
>>>> option might need these extra drivers on a windows guest.
>>>>
>>>> This is how you add a virtual block device. This virtio
>>>> option might need these extra drivers on a windows guest. (
>>>> depending on how deep you want to go, you could cover
>>>> switching out a windows installation iso for the virtio
>>>> driver iso so it can see virtio storage, then switching
>>>> back. There's a definite performance improvement in virtio
>>>> over SATA emulation, but the setup is going to add a page
>>>> or two to your instructions)
>>>>
>>>> This is how you provide an ISO to the guest.
>>>>
>>>> This is how you share part of the host filesystem with
>>>> a linux guest
>>>>
>>>> These are all spice related devices. If you choose
>>>> spice ( the default ) you get them automatically, here is
>>>> what they do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Things like memory, CPU, input devices are set up
>>>> automatically, or during initial creation. IMO my the time
>>>> you have documented the device types that might need some
>>>> explanation, the user is familiar with the device
>>>> management screen and knows where to go, they don't need
>>>> much or any explanation.
>>>>
>>>> Your plan seems GUI focused; I like that. It makes for a
>>>> much easier read for new users when it doesn't look like
>>>> you need to learn a bunch of scary programming to make it
>>>> work :) We can put cli stuff somewhere else.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -- Pete Travis
>>>> - Fedora Docs Project Leadt
>>>> - 'randomuser' on freenode
>>>> -immanetize at fedoraproject.org <mailto:immanetize at fedoraproject.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dayle Parker
>> Senior Technical Writer
>> Red Hat Asia Pacific - Brisbane, Australia
>> dayleparker at redhat.com <mailto:dayleparker at redhat.com>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dayle Parker
> Senior Technical Writer
> Platform Virtualization Docs Lead
>
> Red Hat Asia Pacific - Brisbane, Australia
> dayleparker at redhat.com <mailto:dayleparker at redhat.com> | irc: dayle
>
>
> --
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>
>
>
Thank you, I pushed my latest commit to my FedoraPeople repo, I am
having a hard time getting a section to build in publican. I think the
Products.xml page is too long and I should break it out into individual
chapters instead of one big page.
My personal git repo for this I have been using is here:
git://fedorapeople.org/~grundblom/virtualization-getting-started-guide.git
Thank you,
-Glen
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