[FAmSCo] [Ambassadors] FY2015 budget plan wiki page for NA (was: FY15 event page?)

[inode0]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 4:25 AM, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann at redhat.com> wrote:
> Truong Anh. Tuan píše v St 19. 02. 2014 v 16:29 +0700:
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "inode0" <inode0 at gmail.com>
>> > To: ambassadors at lists.fedoraproject.org
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:27:36 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] FY15 event page? (and Northeast Linux Fest in    April)
>> >
>> > > I am for you. Each region should have an annual budget plan and
>> > > public it for everyone to know what is going on.
>> >
>> > Well, if FAmSCo wanted a budget from NA they should have stopped by
>> > any of the weekly FAmNA meetings and asked for one or sent mail to the
>> > ambassadors list for us to see. I pay pretty close attention to things
>> > and was not aware of any of this until there was less than one week to
>> > turn them in which isn't enough time to be serious about it. And last
>> > year we frankly got tired of hearing people on FAmSCo talk about us
>> > padding the budget. And this year I am already tired of hearing people
>> > on FAmSCo talk about us not providing one when as far as I know no one
>> > on FAmSCo actually asked us for one.
>>
>> Hi Jiri,
>>
>> I believe that we did nag NA guys to have Budget proposal very soon.
>> Could you check on all related discussions with them and on Ambassadors
>> list to see if we did provide them enough information?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Tuan
>
> Hi,
> frankly I'm getting a bit tired of the NA community being tired of
> FAmSCo doing this and that.
> When we came up with the regional budgets we asked the regions to
> nominate one person who would do the tracking, overlook all expenses
> etc. All other regions did nominate someone. The NA community said they
> didn't need such a position. Fair enough. But since there is no one from
> NA in FAmSCo we have no one to talk to. Ruth Suehle is not responsible
> for the NA budget and reporting, she is responsible for the overall
> Fedora budget on the Red Hat side. When we asked John about the budget
> and expenses in NA he told us that he only knew about expenses made with
> his community credit card. So we didn't really find a person to whom we
> can talk about the NA budget and expenses.
> I spoke with Nick several times about the NA budget for FY2015 and he
> told me that he would ask around in the NA community who could possibly
> work on it. I have no idea, though, if he did or not.
>
> I don't want to start another fight between FAmSCo and NA people. The
> communication is clearly not working and the fault probably lies on both
> sides. I still think that having a single contact for all budget and
> tracking communication is the best way. It works in all other regions,
> so why not in NA? I sincerely believe that the situation will improve
> with Jon joining FAmSCo.

This is just a gross mischaracterization of the facts that I almost
don't know where to begin but I'll try to respond briefly since I
really don't think anyone read my previous explanations given this.

1. When asked to provide a single point of contact for tracking NA
expenses we explained that it is currently *impossible* to do from
within FAmNA, we did not say we didn't need such a position. We cannot
track the many expenses paid by Ruth, Spot, Robyn, Dennis, and who
knows who else from Red Hat who pay and bill expenses to NA but who do
not report them to us. We cannot track what we do not know about.

2. Ben Williams eventually volunteered to try his best to fill the
role of treasurer and that information was passed on to FAmSCo. I
doubt anyone from FAmSCo ever talked to him about it.

3. I never said that the only expenses I know about are the ones I pay
with a credit card. Those are tracked in public by me precisely. I
also know about expenses we approve but since Red Hat pays so many of
the expenses I cannot track them precisely. I only know what was
approved, not what was actually paid. And I know nothing about other
things billed to us that I'm not told anything about. In other regions
there is a flow to expense accounting that makes things work
apparently that doesn't exist in NA if accounting is being done with
any precision.

4. I assure you no one nagged us since it was 4 or 5 days before you
wanted it that I found out about it. Of course, it is possible I
missed something here or there since the volume of Fedora stuff I read
and try to take care of is rather large. But I would have noticed
nagging. Probably the best result would have been an estimate similar
to last year anyway, so if that is what is being assumed there isn't
any crisis regarding the budget request in my view.

Please take the old fashioned view that FAmSCo members represent all
ambassadors. I'm afraid we are fractured at this point and if we or
any other region needs to have members of FAmSCo elected in order to
have a functioning FAmSCo representing all ambassadors then FAmSCo is
broken.

John