Raising the bar

[Eli Wapniarski]

On Tuesday 30 June 2009 18:00:03 Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Eli Wapniarski wrote:
> > Stop trying to integrate or force integration of everything into
> > everything.
> 
> I disagree. It's important for components to work together.

Yes it is. And if you want things to work together then write some kind of middle example of pulseaudio crippling the entire system and I know that you personally want to see the death of it, wine with pulseaduio does not work. Remove pulse flash sound in konqueror does not happen. Gnash is nowhere near ready.

> > And there is of yet, still no official support for pulse under wine.
> 
> But there is the WinePulse project which is what we're shipping.
> http://art.ified.ca/?page_id=40 If you encounter bugs with it, you need to
> report them.


I did.

> And the reason upstream WINE refuses to merge the patch is because they want
> to rewrite the whole sound system and they don't want any new backends
> until that happens, no matter how important those new backends are. :-/ It
> has nothing to do with the quality of the backend.
> 
> > Why should a soundserver interfere with networking?
> 
> I don't know. But there's certainly an explanation.
> 
> > Right now the defacto standard Linux soundserver is alsa.
> 
> No, the de-facto standard is PulseAudio now. We aren't the only ones
> shipping it as the default, at least Ubuntu and Mandriva ship it too.
> 
> It's not possible to have apps only support hardware ALSA in a PulseAudio
> environment, they'll not work (because PulseAudio needs the sound device).
> The problem with WINE's ALSA backend is that it needs mmap and thus won't
> work with the PulseAudio ALSA plugin.

As pulseaduio does not work without breaking other things. Which means pulseaudio breaks the sound system. Because not everythnig uses it or can use currently.

> You can try the ESD backend (wine-esd), which uses PulseAudio's ESD
> compatibility layer (pulseaudio-esound-compat).

Does not work

> > Please lets do what we can to not go the Redhat 8 route again. Please.
> 
> Do you have anything against Bluecurve? I still use it. :-)
> 

Redhat 8 integrated the menu system for both kde and gnome. The menu system used was gnome. There was nothing you could do customize the kde menu. Gnome was cirppled, KDE was crippled. And the kde - redhat community was introduced to Rex Dieter as kde-redhat was born. The work that Rex tiresleslly devoted himself made KDE work in Redhat. Anything that smelled of Gnome / KDE integration was seperated out and recompiled to break it and leave KDE independant to allow kde to function as kde. It was a long road until reintigration with Fedora proper and a commitment that kde would continue to work as well. However, we have ssen more and more with network manager, packagekit, breakage in kde and it forced a backing away from the integration probably the same is true with gnome components for policy manager ( I have not even explored it). It would seem that the same is currently true for pulse audio.

Once size does not fit all in Linux (thankfully). It never has. It probably never will.

Eli




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