fedora-kde target audience, draft rfc

[Martin Kho]

On 20 March 2010 11:00, Martin Kho <lists.kho at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thomas Janssen wrote:
>> > Since i was the one who suggested it.. :) I do understand you but, if
>> > the KDE alternative is just giving a very basic functionality and is
>> > having problems (VPN IIRC) then we should consider using what works
>> > well, gives more output, does not suggest (again at the beginning of
>> > an update to reboot) stupid things.
>>
>> Uh, VPN problems are a NM/KNM issue, not a KPK one.
>>
>> The "suggests a reboot too early" bug is bizarre indeed, I should look if I
>> can silence those reboot prompts. (I'm for silencing them entirely, KDE
>> users are smart enough to know when they need to restart their computer.
>> ;-) It'd also probably be the fastest way to zap that bug once and for
>> all.)
>>
>> Another thing I noticed is that KPK doesn't recognize different update
>> types anymore after the latest PK update. :-(
>>
>> I think what needs to happen here is that more people need to test PK
>> updates in testing and that those updates need to be BLOCKED from getting
>> pushed to stable if they break KPK. Throwing out KPK is entirely the wrong
>> solution for such regressions introduced by PK updates. (Neither of the
>> above bugs happened before the latest PK update. It's not KPK's fault that
>> PK breaks backwards compatibility under it.)
>>
>> One problem is that PK/KPK (and GPK, too) moves so fast that, even when I'm
>> running the latest Fedora release, I'm still always running an already
>> deprecated branch, so spending time fixing things might not pay off. (But
>> on the other hand, F12 still has 9 months or so to live, so I guess fixing
>> F12 issues is beneficial in any case.)
>>
>> > KPK is in my eyes, ugly, unreliable and too basic. I suggested to you
>> > as well to try the latest GNOME-packagekit to see what i mean.
>> > I think KPK is on it's way, but not yet ready.
>>
>> Yet KPK just works. (Neither of the above 2 bugs is a showstopper, they're
>> just minor annoyances that can be easily worked around.)
>
> Hi,
> Sure? In F12 the latest PackageKit (0.5.7-1) have broken kpackagekit's
> automatic update notification. In F13 automatic notification didn't ever work.
> And in Rawhide/F14 I had to remove kpackagekit to update my system. Are these
> 'minor annoyances'? (I know, bz them... :-))
>

Two corrections:
(1) F13 = Rawhide/F14 and Rawhide/F14 = F13;
(2) Removing KpackageKitSmartIcon.notfyrc solved the issue in F12.

 Sorry for the noise :-)

Martin Kho


> PackageKit develops very fast, that's great. But I get the impression that the
> developers/maintainers are not too good in communicating what they are
> doing/changing. This must be very frustrating for the kpackagekit
> developers/maintainers to keep up with these changes. I don't like to have
> gnome-PackageKit in KDE either. I miss programming capabilities, but if I had
> them I would create an alternative not depending on PackageKit. IMHO, a
> package manager is a very critical app. What about reviving the package
> manager that lived in kde 3?
>
> Martin Kho
>
>>
>> > If we dont want to lose users to GNOME because of not fully working,
>> > suggesting stupid things KDE apps, we might better use the
>> > alternative, even if it's written GTK/GTK+.
>> > By the way, should everybody use the GNOME SPIN as well because there
>> > are no QT alternatives for the installed system-config-* utility's in
>> > the KDE SPIN? ;)
>>
>> We actually do have alternatives for some of them, but the GTK+ app gets
>> dragged in by Anaconda's dependencies. :-( For example, there is KUser in
>> kdeadmin which can be used instead of system-config-users. This Anaconda
>> dependency bloat is one of the unsolved problems. Others are stuff I use
>> once and never again (e.g. system-config-selinux, to turn the crap off and
>> never look at it again). It's not the same as a package updater which users
>> will be running daily.
>>
>>         Kevin Kofler
>>
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>