[fedora-india] Hi, trouble in fedora media program
ashwin.lists at gmail.com
Thu Jul 29 04:21:49 UTC 2010
On Thursday 29 July 2010 04:15 AM, Ankur Sinha wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 00:08 +0530, Ashwin wrote:
>> The only reason for me to post on this thread was to highlight the
>> rebuke that Arshad got due to a specific insensitive approach by an
>> individual which went unchecked.
> I'm not even remotely trying to be excellent to folks on this email.
> Please don't reply pointing that out. People evidently do not understand
> the meaning of "being excellent to each other" and I do not intend to be
> excellent to folks not excellent to me. After this, I will not
> contribute another word to this discussion.
Fine. So you are an average guy as any one else.
> I'm going to put this in the nicest way possible:
> bias -> To influence in a particular, typically unfair direction;
> IF *all* requests from India could be fulfilled, and one of us, lets say
> ME, chose to not fulfil a certain request, it would be bias against that
> one ticket. Because the Fedora India community is composed of a lot of
> what we refer to as "keyboard warriors" who sit around and talk, and
> abase the work that others do, we're currently not able to fulfil all
> media requests.
There is no problem. The problem which Arshad faced is different, which
you cannot see or you do not want to see.
> (Question for Frank to answer: following this discussion, how many new
> free media contributors from India have you had sign up?).
> This doesn't mean that we're biased towards tickets we accept and
> against ones we don't. The only way to work without what you've newly
> introduced as "bias" is to make sure either all tickets are fulfilled or
> none (no middle ground depending on how many we actually can fulfil)?
> Either we fulfil all tickets, therefore eliminating "bias", or fulfil
> none, again eliminating "bias". Because every ticket that goes
> unfulfilled has been biased against?
That is a guideline explicitly provided. Therefore, no bias here.
> bias is when one thinks "hey.. I'll accept this ticket and not this
> because A sounds good and B sounds crappy". Picking randomly isn't bias.
> It's called being random. Tickets that get accepted are *lucky* and ones
> that don't are *unlucky*. That's it. End of story. There is nothing to
> discuss. If anyone's fault, it is the fault of the keyboard warrior, not
> the one accepting a few tickets!
That is also fine.
> There was no issue with Arshad not receiving media. No contributor at
> that time could do it (for whatever reason), so he was directed to the
> free media programme. DO NOT ATTACH BIAS TO IT. EVERYONE IS NOT GOING TO
> RECEIVE MEDIA ! (yes! I'm screaming my lungs out here!) If you didn't
> take the initiative of accepting his request, like I did for Madan, you
> got NO RIGHT to question what I did and discuss it: I'm a better man
> than you are, like it or not.
Now the problem -
1. Arshad was not directed to any freemedia program (it has been done
now, after all these emails and genuine, zero ego intervention by Frank)
2. Arshad was rebuked for asking for help (Please see the replies to
3. Arshad was asked to get it from vendors - with no information as to
where to search and find the vendors.
The third point highlights the problem, where was the sincerity is
helping Arshad find a vendor or a local source ?
> Another question for Frank: You accept some tickets, and not others.
> That way, you're also being biased. Maybe you're biased over tickets
> that are filled in first !? This entire charade on "bias" is crap.
So are you refuting Rahul who says you had a bias for the name - Madan ?
>> That is a tunnel vision.
>> Please walk through the tunnel there is brightness at the end and
>> outside the tunnel.
>> True open source is a *dedication* of many to remove barriers set up
>> biased views of a few.
> ASHWIN : you got no clue what you're talking about. Stay off the list. I
> don't care if you've been around Linux since it's birth, what you
> generally say on the list is BS. We like our list crap free (politics
> and philosophical issues and the rest) so we can actually get work
This is offensive. Point - 1, If you cannot digest others views /
philosophy, fine, but then learn not to be abusive about it. Point - 2,
Politics is a game of those who are in control of something. Am I in
control of this list ? Ask yourself, whom should you blame for the
politics that is taking place here ?
> What you're saying "If I give a beggar some money at a point of time,
> and I don't give another beggar at another point, I'm biased. I
> shouldn't have helped that one" Dude. Really???
You never replied to Arshad. That is not a problem at all. You want to
give / share, it is your choice, and if you do not, then also it is
fine. It is a choice (not a bias).
But those who *did* reply to Arshad, created a problem due to their bias.
> I use Fedora and not $distro -> I'm biased and therefore this isn't
> "true open source"?? "tunnel vision"?? What the hell kind of crap is
I am sure, you have your own reasons (unexplained / explained) for
making a choice. You may like to have your say / reasoning to explain
Fedora vs. Ubuntu / Emacs vs. Vi / GUI vs Cmdline etc. Reasons and bias
do not co-exist. Bias is something different. Maybe the crap is more
> There is a HUGE difference between choosing randomly and being biased.
> Don't mix up the two.
Exactly, please do not mix up. I have no issues on Arshad not being
selected in the choice to be a beneficiary. But was the reply to him
appropriate ? Have you read the replies to Arshad ?
> I loathe, really really loathe this usage of the list. This is FYI one
> of the more frequent causes of why a contributor switches communities.
> It's called USELESS CRAP. It has the power to piss off one to the extent
> that he/she doesn't want to contribute any more. From my mail, it should
> be evident that ASHWIN is doing a great job at pushing me to the
> threshold. Why I'll stick around is that my mentor(s) (surprise!
> surprise! Rahul has been my mentor since he got me started off as a
> contributor to Fedora TWO YEARS AGO) will tell me that this stuff isn't
> worth getting upset about, and that the work we do is way more
The crap (as you say) is in turning people away. So may be now you may
understand how Arshad feels after been turned away rather than being
pointed (with some sincerity) where to find some local help even if he
was not selected to be a beneficiary of the free media program.
>> I hope I was able to articulate the exact problem which Arshad has
>> faced, and if left unchecked has the potential to multiply.
> You weren't. Why? Because there is no "exact problem". Arshad didn't
> face any. You're biased to only stand out for Arshad and not the 100 or
> so tickets that do not receive media per month. You have to sign up the
> fedora media list so you can discuss and question *individually* why
> each of those 100 or so tickets went unfulfilled (while some got
> fulfilled, BIAS). Only when you do this, are you free of bias and your
> relationship with open source is "pure". As of now, standing up for one
> and not all the unlucky folks who do not receive media is "tunnel
> vision" and you do not deserve to be even an open source evangelist.
> Let's start a thread discussing this more important moral issue. Who
> gives a crap about actually contributing?
> There, I've made an issue out of NOTHING, how does that feel? Your
> biased behaviour is worse than what you call "bias" in my dealings.
1. Read the posts, it was Rahul who said, you have a bias (not me) -
maybe you should use your fangs on Rahul rather than me.
2. Do you think - Ravi here thanked me for nothing ? Grow up. See the
real issues first.
> Since there was no "exact problem", it has no potential to multiply
See the real issues - Ravi's post and Frank's replies do acknowledge the
problem in many ways. Why are you blind to that ? Is it your rage -
which blinds you ?
> I can go on writing the entire night, I'm that nonplussed with this
> As it is, we don't get as much work done as we'd like, again because of
> keyboard warriors doing nothing but typing mails to the list. Do not
> create issues that further lead to bottle necks. Please! I beg folks on
> the list to refrain from this behaviour. This isn't contribution, if
> anything, it sucks from our contribution and de-motivates us.
> Do what you can, don't sit and yap and debate and discuss.
Then why are you creating, contributing and drawing yourself into one ?
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