Gathering community feedback...

Wed Mar 9 19:42:48 UTC 2011

On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 11:58, Draciron Smith <draciron at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora
> Go down to support options. Under forum it links you to fedoraforum.org.  It
> has for years now.  I think I first joined Fedoraforums.org back when FC4 or
> FC5 was out.

I see that, but I don't think it is shown as being THE place for users
to go. On the other hand I don't think that is really the point of
your emails. You are unhappy with the direction with Fedora and I can
understand and sympathize. In the end, I want people to find what
makes them happy, and if Fedora is not doing it.. please do go find
someplace that will do so.

I have no plan to kick people off the list for opinions I think we
have all had at one time or another. I won't say this is the best
avenue for getting anything done with it.. but I understand. Good luck
with your next OS.

> Y'all are welcome to kick me off the list. I'll be leaving it anyway at the
> end of this thread because I no longer use Fedora, thus no real incentive to
> contribute any more. I'm no longer active on the Fedoraforum.org website not
> that I was an especially active contributor there. The staff there are quite
> knowledgeable and very active so most of the time they answered a question
> long before I saw it.  Y'all really should lend more support to that website
> by actually visiting it and seeing what real life users of your project are
> experiencing/asking/happy & upset about.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 00:51, Draciron Smith <draciron at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 1. Fedora users feel like they have NO mechanism for feedback.
>> >
>> > The mailing lists are a maze and designed for contributors not for mere
>> > users.
>> >
>> > The prescribed mechanism on the Fedora website is
>> > http://fedoraforum.org/
>>
>> Well maybe we need to change that. Fedora Forum is run by an outside
>> organization of volunteers.
>>
>> > This website is clearly avoided like the plague by all contributors.  If
>> > ANYBODY who had any say in the Fedora project visited things like the
>> > VERY
>> > VERY VERY unpopular changes to the GDM would be instantly reversed.  In
>> > fact
>> > many like myself for the first time no longer have Fedora running on any
>> > of
>> > my machines for the first time since Fedora came into existence. Since
>> > about
>> > 97 I've had at least 1 machine usually most or all running Redhat and
>> > later
>> > Fedora. It's been my main distro for years. The GDM issue was the last
>> > straw. Feedback on fedora forums on all the Linux forums I've visited
>> > has
>> > been extremely negative and I've seen quite a few people do the same
>> > thing I
>> > have and switch to another distro.
>>
>> That is the way of things. New people come in and old people leave. It
>> is not an infrastructure item to deal with it other than make those
>> transitions as easy as possible.
>>
>> > 2. Why does the Fedora project TELL people to go to a forum to give
>> > feedback
>>
>> Link please. I don't see where it is told that feedback is to be given
>> there.. just that one can best find help there. Two different things.
>>
>> > then never visit the place much less listen to feedback offered? It is
>> > clearly stated at the Fedora forums that contributors never visit there
>> > because so many arrive on their shores with the false hope of actually
>> > giving feedback.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2011/3/2 "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" <johannbg at gmail.com>
>> >>
>> >> As Brian mentioned in [1],[2] as in the CWG wanted to get a
>> >> constructive
>> >> feedback on COC and COCE proposed drafts from the whole community on
>> >> the
>> >> FAB list highlights one issue that the project is facing as in we don't
>> >> have a good way of gathering community feedback on topics.
>> >>
>> >> This issue is probably know but for some reason not being worked upon?
>> >> ( Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong )
>> >>
>> >> Anyway to point out the obvious encase nobody was aware of this issue.
>> >> ( we have been without one for now about 15 release cycles so something
>> >> is amiss )
>> >>
>> >> He posts the proposed drafts to a single mailing list which..
>> >>
>> >> a)
>> >> Has a limited number of users subscribed to it
>> >>
>> >> b)
>> >> Requires all members of the community to be subscribed to that
>> >> particular list.
>> >>
>> >> c)
>> >> Mailing list provide the ability to see and reply to others people feed
>> >> back resulting in so called *noise* as in people reassuring their
>> >> feedback encase the message/meaning did get through and etc.. rather
>> >> then constructive discussion.
>> >>
>> >> That results in an end result that is far from being effective and
>> >> reaching the whole community.
>> >>
>> >> Coming up with a rough solution to gather the feedback is a no brainer
>> >>
>> >> First we need a common dominator that applies to all community members
>> >> and that one is obvious FAS account.
>> >>
>> >> Next we need a web server with a DB backend, hooked up to FAS with an
>> >> simple web page that the community member logs into that displays to
>> >> him
>> >> what he needs to provide his feedback and two text boxes one for the
>> >> feedback and another one for any question he might have with regards to
>> >> the proposal/draft itself.
>> >>
>> >> With the above in place all that is needed is to request the feedback
>> >> via our public channels like a mail to the announce or something
>> >> similar.
>> >>
>> >> Now the tricky part is coming up with a simple yet scalable to the
>> >> total
>> >> number of community members solution, to work through all that feedback
>> >> I got couple of ideas up my sleeves for that but instead of reinventing
>> >> the wheel I propose that existing survey tools like [1],[2] be looked
>> >> at
>> >> first to see how they have solved the problem we are facing.
>> >>
>> >> JBG
>> >>
>> >> 1.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010525.html
>> >> 2.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010526.html
>> >> 3. http://www.limesurvey.org/
>> >> 4. http://www.doodle.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > infrastructure mailing list
>> > infrastructure at lists.fedoraproject.org
>> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen J Smoogen.
>> "The core skill of innovators is error recovery, not failure avoidance."
>> Randy Nelson, President of Pixar University.
>> "Let us be kind, one to another, for most of us are fighting a hard
>> battle." -- Ian MacLaren
>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
>
>
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-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
"The core skill of innovators is error recovery, not failure avoidance."
Randy Nelson, President of Pixar University.
"Let us be kind, one to another, for most of us are fighting a hard
battle." -- Ian MacLaren