Summary/Minutes of today's irc-support-sig meeting (2010-12-02)
Kevin Fenzi
kevin at scrye.com
Thu Dec 2 17:15:18 UTC 2010
=============================================
#fedora-meeting: IRC Support SIG (2010-12-02)
=============================================
Meeting started by nirik at 16:30:01 UTC. The full logs are available at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-12-02/irc-support-sig.2010-12-02-16.30.log.html
Meeting summary
---------------
* init process (nirik, 16:30:01)
* Week in review (nirik, 16:33:06)
* LINK: http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
(nirik, 16:33:06)
* LINK:
http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/weekly-stats-archive/fedora-weekly-2010-11-25.html
is the previous weeks. (nirik, 16:34:11)
* LINK:
http://landorsplace.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/three-strikes-youre-out/
and
http://landorsplace.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/clearing-up-my-last-blog-post-and-finishing-things-with-fedora/
(nirik, 16:39:09)
* Tickets (nirik, 16:43:47)
* LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1 (nirik,
16:43:48)
* F12 EOL (nirik, 16:52:13)
* Long term bans (nirik, 16:54:03)
* Open Floor (nirik, 17:00:51)
* LINK:
http://jasonfarrell.com/fedora/fedorasupport/what-does-fedora-support.png
(nirik, 17:04:52)
Meeting ended at 17:14:13 UTC.
Action Items
------------
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* nirik (71)
* EvilBob (28)
* Khaytsus (25)
* fenris02 (22)
* dcr226 (16)
* Southern_Gentlem (7)
* zodbot (6)
* skvidal (6)
* mether (4)
* mock (3)
* Sonar_Gal (2)
* N3LRX (2)
* hannes| (2)
* zcat (1)
* rbergeron (1)
--
16:30:01 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2010-12-02)
16:30:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 2 16:30:01 2010 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30:01 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig
16:30:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
16:30:01 <nirik> #topic init process
16:31:06 <nirik> who all is around for bacon?
16:31:10 <nirik> er, I mean, meeting.
16:31:18 * dcr226
16:31:22 * Southern_Gentlem
16:31:37 <N3LRX>
16:33:00 <nirik> ok, lets go ahead and dive in.
16:33:06 <nirik> #topic Week in review
16:33:06 <nirik> http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
16:33:17 <nirik> This is actually 2 weeks in review, since we didn't meet last week.
16:33:43 <Sonar_Gal>
16:33:44 <nirik> pretty busy week.
16:34:11 <nirik> http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/weekly-stats-archive/fedora-weekly-2010-11-25.html is the previous weeks.
16:34:19 <fenris02> pesky holiday
16:34:37 <dcr226> does that mean I get double time for last thursday?
16:34:51 <zcat> dcr226++++
16:34:53 <fenris02> dcr226, yes, double your pay for that day
16:35:04 <dcr226> awesome, thanks ;-)
16:35:37 <nirik> anyone have anything they would like to note on the last 2 weeks?
16:36:38 <nirik> There was an user who had a bad experence who posted several blog postings that was brought up on the advisory board list.
16:37:00 <fenris02> yep. turns out he didnt really want help at all. just wanted to vent and run.
16:37:02 <nirik> I have a few items I think we can learn from that...
16:37:08 <dcr226> nirik, it didn't read that way in my logs
16:37:32 <dcr226> so I ignored the blog entry as being over-embellished
16:37:53 <hannes|> Do you happen to have a link? please
16:37:57 <nirik> If it seems like someone is getting frustrated or upset, I think it might be good for us to always fall back to asking them to clarify their actual question.
16:38:20 <nirik> I think a lot of this issue was that they didn't convey an actual question, so everyone was giving them different things...
16:38:26 <nirik> hannes|: yeah, just a sec.
16:39:09 <nirik> http://landorsplace.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/three-strikes-youre-out/ and http://landorsplace.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/clearing-up-my-last-blog-post-and-finishing-things-with-fedora/
16:39:19 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik, i have heard about about this blog post but then again i see the feedback message we get so i really think that the blog post is someone vindetta and move on from there
16:39:49 <nirik> yes, but I think even so we can learn a few things here...
16:40:00 <hannes|> thanks
16:40:01 <fenris02> waste of time trying to help that one. should have stopped trying long before.
16:40:31 <nirik> getting people to clarify their actual question I think would help... sometimes people just say random things and don't expect an answer, or are poor at articulating what they are looking for...
16:40:38 <N3LRX> Seems to me the blog poster was a know it all who got put in his place and when corrected he didn't like it too much.
16:40:54 <nirik> also, we should really avoid personal attacks.
16:42:19 <nirik> anyhow, just wanted to bring it up and note the items above...
16:43:07 <nirik> anything more on review or this? or shall we move on?
16:43:40 <EvilBob> Move on, sorry I'm late
16:43:47 <nirik> #topic Tickets
16:43:48 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1
16:43:53 <fenris02> N3LRX, more than you know. there were a few emails to that effect as well
16:44:18 <nirik> 3 tickets this week:
16:44:22 <nirik> .title https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/18
16:44:22 <zodbot> nirik: #18 (Helpful Folks in #fedora on irc freenode) - irc-support-sig - Trac
16:44:58 <nirik> kudos to fenris02
16:45:03 <fenris02> ta
16:45:24 <nirik> .title https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/19
16:45:24 <zodbot> nirik: #19 (Printer Problem with F14) - irc-support-sig - Trac
16:45:32 <nirik> kudos to... me I guess. ;)
16:45:38 <nirik> and damestro
16:45:56 <nirik> .title https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/20
16:45:57 <zodbot> nirik: #20 (Omega (Dalmation) Fedora Remix release) - irc-support-sig - Trac
16:46:09 <nirik> This is a note from mether about Omega being released...
16:46:44 <fenris02> mether's been at it a while, the link for the ks is there so you can review what it really does
16:47:06 <nirik> yep. I think we have always been able to support omega... it's very close to fedora.
16:47:36 <mether> I am here if anyone has questions
16:47:38 <EvilBob> +1 to supporting it
16:47:46 <fenris02> mether, awesome :)
16:47:55 <EvilBob> Hey mether nice to see you
16:48:03 <Khaytsus> You all can start now, I'm here.
16:48:05 <Southern_Gentlem> someone did have a question for you about it
16:48:22 <fenris02> Southern_Gentlem, happen to have the quote?
16:48:23 * nirik doesn't have any off hand.
16:48:25 <mether> EvilBob, hi
16:48:54 <Southern_Gentlem> fenris02, actually i was thinking it was you
16:48:58 <EvilBob> The only questions I saw were covered in the ticket comments
16:49:15 <fenris02> Southern_Gentlem, oh, right. i did - i put my comments in the ticket
16:49:40 * nirik nods.
16:50:51 <nirik> so, shall we thank mether for the heads up and move on?
16:50:57 <EvilBob> Yup yup
16:51:07 <fenris02> yep, glad to see he's still around. thouhgt he'd vanish for a while
16:51:31 <nirik> yeah, same here. ;) Thanks for the remix and info mether
16:51:41 <EvilBob> well not vanished just not as active
16:52:01 <mether> life happens
16:52:03 <mether> thanks folks
16:52:09 <nirik> thanks mether
16:52:13 <nirik> #topic F12 EOL
16:52:27 <nirik> a moment of silence for a dear departed friend f12. ;)
16:52:48 <nirik> Just a reminder that we should be pointing f12 people to the EOL links now.
16:52:48 <fenris02> all those f10 -f12 boxes really need to get a punt now and upgraded
16:52:52 <Southern_Gentlem> *topic in #fedora changed check
16:53:22 <fenris02> rhel6 for those folks really really stuck on f12 for whatever reason.
16:53:39 <fenris02> centos6 should be around about new years or so. (guessing)
16:53:48 * nirik nods.
16:53:54 <Southern_Gentlem> (will be glad when centos 6 hgets out the door for those poor souls)
16:54:03 <nirik> #topic Long term bans
16:54:30 <EvilBob> We have a user that is banned from the three channels we cover
16:54:37 <nirik> I just wanted to note that we have 2 folks banned in #fedora and #fedora-social (and one also in #fedora-ops) that have been banned for several weeks...
16:54:46 <nirik> not to name names, but you can check the ban lists.
16:54:58 <nirik> EvilBob: there's another thats banned in both fedora and fedora-social too.
16:55:30 <Southern_Gentlem> as far as i am concern BS can be a yearly permanet ban
16:55:30 <EvilBob> The one has been banned many times, always disruptive
16:55:53 <EvilBob> and abusive when dealt with
16:55:57 * dcr226 votes lift it, see if he can get himself banned again
16:56:21 <dcr226> s/himself/themselves
16:56:21 <EvilBob> dcr226: Isn't 20 or 30 bans enough to prove it?
16:56:31 <EvilBob> I sure think it is
16:56:32 <fenris02> there are actually two disruptive folks banned from both #fedora and -social
16:56:35 <nirik> I would say personally that we should leave them until the f15 mass clearing, unless they approach us and indicate that they will try and change their behavior in some way. Otherwise it's pointless.
16:57:07 <dcr226> EvilBob, I didn't realise it was that many honestly
16:57:25 <EvilBob> I have had no requests to lift the ban that said anything about changing, only demands and calling names
16:57:39 <fenris02> meh. he can wait until at least the name calling stops.
16:57:52 <Khaytsus> I vote leave it, both are always disruptive, rarely actually looking for help, often just arguing or trolling.
16:58:19 <EvilBob> I have had to put the user in my ignore list, I still see the messages in my bouncer report
16:59:30 <nirik> It sounds to me like folks are fine with leaving it for now...
17:00:06 <Khaytsus> Yeah, if they were looking for help but got out of hand, that's a 15m thing or so.. But the special cases... No thanks.
17:00:09 <EvilBob> It's hard when it gets to the point we have to ban someone from -ops
17:00:48 * nirik nods. Sad.
17:00:51 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
17:00:56 <nirik> ok, anything for open floor?
17:01:07 <EvilBob> However, the user that I have been contacted by knows about the trac instance and knows how to file a ticket
17:02:15 <Khaytsus> nirik: How about our support for derivative works? Do we have anything "official" here?
17:02:38 <EvilBob> Khaytsus: we covered and agreed on supporting Omega
17:02:54 <nirik> I think zcat had a nice pic a while back...
17:02:57 <nirik> it's a continum.
17:03:00 <Khaytsus> Specialty things like CCRMA or Amahi, or even things like Netbooks with sortaFedora on them.
17:03:30 <Khaytsus> We _want_ people to use Fedora for such projects but can't always directly support them, in my opinion.
17:03:51 <fenris02> amahi is quite distant from fedor
17:04:08 <Khaytsus> So should we agree to help with what we can and make it clear when we hit our limitations? Such as audio support in CCRMA, they do a lot to fiddle with it (as is the point I think ;)
17:04:08 <fenris02> ccrma is more or less ok, unless they run that kernel. then it's pretty broken
17:04:21 * nirik looks for the thing.
17:04:27 <EvilBob> Khaytsus: Yeah I think it is a judgment call, support what we can, if we can't make a note for the other helpers about what is found
17:04:52 <nirik> http://jasonfarrell.com/fedora/fedorasupport/what-does-fedora-support.png
17:05:25 <Khaytsus> So we'll all supporte derivatives until it deviates from Fedora enough that we can no longer help, everyone agree?
17:05:28 <fenris02> heh, i like that
17:05:44 <Khaytsus> yeah I like that picture too
17:05:49 <Khaytsus> Do we have that on fs.o anywhere? :)
17:06:15 <dcr226> half the time, you could be supporting $(EOL or Other Kernel) and not know, until you get fpaste --sysinfo or uname -r
17:06:50 <Khaytsus> In my opinion, EOL is a different matter. User has control over that.
17:06:57 <Sonar_Gal> well the 1st thing should be to get the uname -r. I noticed Southern_Gentlem does that most of the time
17:07:09 <dcr226> Khaytsus, yeah, but <user> how do I search for a file with yum?
17:07:12 <Khaytsus> But in the case of needing $special-variety (CCRMA) or has netbook, they are kind of stuck.
17:07:16 <dcr226> Khaytsus, that could easily be F8
17:07:17 <EvilBob> Khaytsus: in most cases anyhow, "control" being variable
17:07:30 <skvidal> yum provides /path/to/file
17:07:47 <skvidal> oh - sorry
17:07:51 <dcr226> skvidal, Heh, it wasn't a request - an example.lol
17:07:56 <skvidal> dcr226: sorry
17:07:57 <EvilBob> skvidal: Yeah the yum man page gets pointed to as a reference a LOT
17:08:00 <dcr226> but thanks anyway :-)
17:08:10 <Khaytsus> EvilBob: True, they might be just a user and not admin etc.. But in general I mean they can control what is installed if they're just EOL. They can't necessarily if they have a bundle or need something like Amahi or CCRMA, I'm sure there are other examples.
17:08:18 <nirik> anyhow, I think the picure sums up my feelings on it. We help where we can...
17:08:27 <dcr226> nirik, yeah
17:08:31 <EvilBob> nirik: +1
17:08:32 <skvidal> EvilBob: this is a good doc, too http://yum.baseurl.org/wiki/YumCommands
17:09:01 <Khaytsus> Okay sounds good. I'm putting that into my list of fedora help commands and when someone deviates too far, I'll point them to it :)
17:09:03 <dcr226> fpaste is pretty cool now, and will help to diagnose most ills quickly (--sysinfo). as an added bonus, you get to see the machine you're supporting
17:09:06 <skvidal> EvilBob: it is a good deal less detailed than the yum man page - but it provided a nice overview
17:09:11 <Khaytsus> Or is this just for us?
17:09:14 <EvilBob> skvidal: Cool, we can add that to the generic yum macro messages
17:09:20 <skvidal> cool
17:09:20 <Khaytsus> dcr226: Yes, fpaste is awesome.
17:09:25 <nirik> Khaytsus: we might want to get zcat to update it...
17:09:30 <Khaytsus> nirik: Heh, yes.
17:09:40 <Khaytsus> Make it generic, not specific to X, Y
17:09:46 <nirik> right
17:09:53 <Khaytsus> Put it on fs.o?
17:10:11 <EvilBob> Khaytsus: I think it could go on the wiki
17:10:24 <Khaytsus> Somehwere besides his personal domain.
17:10:35 <fenris02> fs.o sounds good
17:10:37 <nirik> yeah, wiki would be great.
17:10:48 <Khaytsus> We'll sort that. Okay, :)
17:10:50 <EvilBob> Khaytsus: there are several pages there for #fedora "stuff" that it would be applicable to
17:11:02 <Khaytsus> We can take it "offline" as they say IRL
17:11:06 * nirik doesn't care where it ends up really. ;)
17:11:08 <nirik> yeah
17:11:12 <EvilBob> Out of band
17:11:55 <nirik> Oh, I had one more note/observation: We agreed to lighten up on the off topic when there are no questions pending a while back.
17:12:18 <nirik> I think thats been a great success and made the channel more happy.
17:12:49 <mock> bacon?
17:12:56 <EvilBob> Yeah nice to be able to off topic a little, I almost got a date out of it...
17:13:01 <EvilBob> ;^)
17:13:03 <nirik> ha. ;)
17:13:12 <nirik> anyhow, I think we should keep that up...
17:13:14 <EvilBob> damn winter storms
17:13:17 * nirik has nothing more.
17:13:26 <nirik> Any other items before I close this puppy down?
17:13:33 <mock> puppy?
17:13:35 <EvilBob> Put a bow on it IMO
17:13:35 <fenris02> bacon time
17:13:37 * dcr226 strokes the puppy
17:13:37 <Khaytsus> We need to do Net Promoter Score metrics for the channel ;)
17:13:43 <rbergeron> bacon?
17:13:45 <Khaytsus> (just kidding.. sorta)
17:13:55 * nirik has no idea what that is.
17:14:01 <Khaytsus> OOB ;)
17:14:03 * fenris02 notes that rbergeron has a /notify bacon
17:14:04 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone.
17:14:11 <mock> bacon \o/
17:14:13 <nirik> #endmeeting
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