File a bug against what?

[Orcan Ogetbil]

On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
>> Sure. Here is some kaffeine crash-on-exit. I believe I have all the
> [crash in libselinux.so.1]
>> Here is a k3b crash-on-exit:
> [likewise]
>
> Are these the only KDE 3 apps crashing? We have reports about this indeed,
> we thought it was caused by something linked in by
> xine-lib-extras-freeworld (maybe ffmpeg), not by kdelibs3, but kdelibs3
> might be a common point we haven't thought of yet. Rex?
>

Yes. Only KDE3 applications crash on exit. Many of them crash.
Exceptions that I found are kile, konversation.

>> What else do I need other than what debuginfo-install k3b kaffeine
>> installs?
>
> The missing debuginfo package is probably the one for libselinux, but I
> don't think we need it, the bug is not there anyway, it's a memory
> corruption somewhere which makes libselinux fail its cleanups. The latest
> news I have is that something tries calling close(-1) according to
> Valgrind, but we haven't found the offender yet (Valgrind just warns about
> the invalid parameter to close() but produces no backtrace for that).
>
>> Unmaintained doesn't necessarily mean bad. If something is fully
>> functional then it can go unmaintained for years. gwenview is not
>> light enough.
>
> KDE is about being good, not about being light. ;-)
>

Maybe KDE is not, but kuickshow was about being light. There's nothing
comparable to kuickshow now.

>> Meanwhile, I have nothing against GTK+ 1.
>
> It has been obsolete for 7 years, it has got no updates whatsoever from
> upstream, not even bugfixes, for 8 years (they stopped updating it even
> before GTK+ 2 was officially released) and who knows how many of the
> security issues found and fixed in GTK+ 2 also apply to it and nobody
> noticed (other than blackhats).
>
> How long should such a compat lib be kept on life support? I think we've
> reached the point where the apps which are still using it are either dead
> themselves (and thus should be EOLed along with the ancient compat lib) or
> have upstreams which just don't care about the problem (in which case
> telling them they'll be dropped from Fedora if they don't port to to
> current libs might get them moving - if not, their upstream isn't any more
> useful than a dead one and the package should be EOLed as unmaintainable).
>

Sorry, I don't get this "unmaintained <-> bad" logic. Sure, there is a
finite probability that something unmaintained will turn bad at some
point. But from our experience, I sadly admit that something
well-maintained may also turn bad.

Whenever there's demand, there should be supply.

>> The best audio application still uses GTK+, and that, I think, is a
>> sufficient proof that GTK+ is better than GTK2+.
>
> Don't tell me you mean XMMS with "the best audio application"...
>

I did not need to name it. You did not need to name it either. Best is best.

I do admit that amarok had its prime time at some point. But as every
other audio application, it lost (or in upstream language: changed)
its vision.
The best one is still there. It never fails me.

> There are plenty of alternatives which don't rely on obsolete libraries,
> including Audacious which is based on XMMS code and keeps its user
> interface.
>
>> I also started thinking that all we need to swallow is that Qt3 is
>> better than Qt4.
>
> It's not.
>
> And even if it was, that wouldn't change the fact that it's deprecated and
> no longer maintained by upstream and packages using it need to be migrated
> off it ASAP.
>
> The same thing I said about GTK+ 1 also applies to Qt 3: I don't think it
> makes sense to keep it around forever. For a few years, to give apps time
> to port, sure, definitely. But forever, no.
>

I do respect your thoughts but I do not agree with them. If version X
of a library (or application) is better then version X+1, then X shall
not be abandoned.
If its upstream doesn't care about the version X anymore, it is my
responsibility (as a power user and a packager) to tell them that they
are doing wrong. I do think that reverting F-11 to KDE3 would be a
striking lesson to upstream.

But who am I anyways...

>> If by "font acceleration" you mean "Anti-aliasing", turning it off
>> doesn't do any good. kfontview still shows a blank window. If by "font
>> acceleration" you mean something else, can you be a little more
>> specific?
>
> Try:
> nvidia-settings -a GlyphCache=0
>

Didn't help. I still get blank window with kfontview. I also removed
all kfontview related bits from ~/.kde, it didn't help.

> Completely untested, of course, as I don't have NVidia sh*t.
>
>> Yes, nvidia sucks by not open sourcing their driver. But I do not have
>> another choice.
>
> Yes, you have the choice to buy supported hardware. NVidia sh*t is NOT
> supported.
>
>        Kevin Kofler
>

I really have no other choice right now. I do not think the supported
hardware vendors will donate me a 200$ graphics card.

Cheers,
Orcan