Attention / Interest / Desire / Action,, or why marketing 'the Fedora project' is a bad idea.

Jeremy Hogan jeremy.hogan at
Fri Jun 24 00:09:56 UTC 2005

On 6/23/05, Tom Adelstein <adelste at> wrote:
> That's an interesting and almost compelling statement of why you want
> our research studies. The data exists 

Where? Is it public? 

> and you can use the same sampling
> techniques

Which were? Are those publicly available?

> interview the same people, sign the same contracts, write
> the whitepapers and sell your services to the same people we do.

This is off point. Wasn't your point that we reject ideas and
information? I've seen nothing but requests for the information. I
know who you are, and so does Google. And I don't question your
credentials. You don't need them if you have the data.
> I'm not here representing Ubuntu or OpenSolaris or anyone. I considered
> contributing to this project. But after sitting back and watching, I
> don't see any way you will accomplish anything. 

The good news about an open community is that the door swings both
ways. You are free to watch it flame from afar, and then everyone on
this thread will know that you told us so. You will have those
credentials to us.

>First because you are
> not supportable and definitely not coachable.

I could walk into any forum, except Utopiabuntu I guess, and level
that same compaint. First I need to find one full of people who have
been waiting so long for this, that they have cut to the chase and
can't take anymore vague or (so far) unsibstantiated statements of
purpose or direction.

> Do you know the difference between a jerk and an enlightened person? No.

Oh, I think I know this one. It's a trick question. The jerk is the
one who calls an entire list full of people he's never met, spoken to,
or seen a post from jerks - based on a couple of posts he may have

Or should I scold you for even asking me such a question? How dare you
doubt my knowledge of asses and holes!

> OK. A jerk doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground. An
> enlightened person doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground but
> he knows it.

I know neither where this thread's ass (the data) is or the whole in
the ground (the research techniques). So I can't tell them apart, but
at least I know it. I still feel like there's something to be learned
if we find either.

> You chaps don't know it and it might not matter if you did because you
> are not comfortable in the space of "not knowing" and being willing to
> see what's out there without dragging your conclusions, beliefs,
> rationalizations, excuses and all that mental crap into everything.

I saw several requests for the numbers, which I didn't take as
questioning the validity. But I know a bit about Jef and Seth, so I
know they care more about the facts than the conjecture.  You have to
have seen the same funded studies we've seen, and you know like we
know that data can be spun.

> I gave you a very succinct and clear example of a community that's
> working 

But not to what extent, and nothing as to why. Is the Sun blueprint
publicly available? If all of this was work for hire, that you cannot
share, what you could easily contribute if you were still interested
is where to begin in sweeping this data up ourselves. Assuming the
best way to build a community is by training everyone to do
everything, instead of capitalizing on a member's given strengths.

>and you ask for my credentials and scatter charts. 

...and the stats, and the methodology...or a link, or something. 

Like I said, I know who you are, and I don't doubt your integrity nor
do I suspect you of shilling for another project, and I would still
love to know what sites/stats/metrics/methodology you are using. I
believe Ubuntu has a thriving community and install base. I'd love to
see that (and any other) project baselined and tracked in a consistent
fashion. I don't do that for a living, so I need help. That what a
community offers, right? That's why we don't tell sysadmins with
Nvidia trouble to go by a book on hacking the kernel before they ask
for help.

I'm not big on my Hindu parables, but I have heard this one "Lead by example."


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