Attention / Interest / Desire / Action,, or why marketing 'the Fedora project' is a bad idea.

W. Guy Thomas mrguytx at
Fri Jun 24 01:30:54 UTC 2005

On Thu, 2005-06-23 at 20:09 -0400, Jeremy Hogan wrote:

> On 6/23/05, Tom Adelstein <adelste at> wrote:
> > That's an interesting and almost compelling statement of why you want
> > our research studies. The data exists 
> Where? Is it public? 
> > and you can use the same sampling
> > techniques
> Which were? Are those publicly available?
> > interview the same people, sign the same contracts, write
> > the whitepapers and sell your services to the same people we do.
> This is off point. Wasn't your point that we reject ideas and
> information? I've seen nothing but requests for the information. I
> know who you are, and so does Google. And I don't question your
> credentials. You don't need them if you have the data.
> > I'm not here representing Ubuntu or OpenSolaris or anyone. I considered
> > contributing to this project. But after sitting back and watching, I
> > don't see any way you will accomplish anything. 
> The good news about an open community is that the door swings both
> ways. You are free to watch it flame from afar, and then everyone on
> this thread will know that you told us so. You will have those
> credentials to us.
> >First because you are
> > not supportable and definitely not coachable.
> I could walk into any forum, except Utopiabuntu I guess, and level
> that same compaint. First I need to find one full of people who have
> been waiting so long for this, that they have cut to the chase and
> can't take anymore vague or (so far) unsibstantiated statements of
> purpose or direction.
> > Do you know the difference between a jerk and an enlightened person? No.
> Oh, I think I know this one. It's a trick question. The jerk is the
> one who calls an entire list full of people he's never met, spoken to,
> or seen a post from jerks - based on a couple of posts he may have
> misunderstood?
> Or should I scold you for even asking me such a question? How dare you
> doubt my knowledge of asses and holes!
> > OK. A jerk doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground. An
> > enlightened person doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground but
> > he knows it.
> I know neither where this thread's ass (the data) is or the whole in
> the ground (the research techniques). So I can't tell them apart, but
> at least I know it. I still feel like there's something to be learned
> if we find either.
> > You chaps don't know it and it might not matter if you did because you
> > are not comfortable in the space of "not knowing" and being willing to
> > see what's out there without dragging your conclusions, beliefs,
> > rationalizations, excuses and all that mental crap into everything.
> I saw several requests for the numbers, which I didn't take as
> questioning the validity. But I know a bit about Jef and Seth, so I
> know they care more about the facts than the conjecture.  You have to
> have seen the same funded studies we've seen, and you know like we
> know that data can be spun.
> > I gave you a very succinct and clear example of a community that's
> > working 
> But not to what extent, and nothing as to why. Is the Sun blueprint
> publicly available? If all of this was work for hire, that you cannot
> share, what you could easily contribute if you were still interested
> is where to begin in sweeping this data up ourselves. Assuming the
> best way to build a community is by training everyone to do
> everything, instead of capitalizing on a member's given strengths.
> >and you ask for my credentials and scatter charts. 
> ...and the stats, and the methodology...or a link, or something. 
> Like I said, I know who you are, and I don't doubt your integrity nor
> do I suspect you of shilling for another project, and I would still
> love to know what sites/stats/metrics/methodology you are using. I
> believe Ubuntu has a thriving community and install base. I'd love to
> see that (and any other) project baselined and tracked in a consistent
> fashion. I don't do that for a living, so I need help. That what a
> community offers, right? That's why we don't tell sysadmins with
> Nvidia trouble to go by a book on hacking the kernel before they ask
> for help.
> I'm not big on my Hindu parables, but I have heard this one "Lead by example."
> --jeremy
> --
> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
> Fedora-marketing-list at

my goodness, my first day here, but I understand this is a little out of
the ordinary for this list.
one thing I would have to point out is that Ubuntu is about the fastest
branded product on the market since like the 30's or something, I don't
have the stats here...

anyway, unless we coalesce and find direction then we are twisting in
the wind.
Fedora has a huge user base, but I know personally of many defections to
Ubuntu in the last few weeks, just from friends of mine, so it's not a
broad sample, but I believe indicative.

I will start a new thread introducing myself in a few minutes, but I
wanted to comment on this, my first fedora-marketing list reception.



W. Guy Thomas <mrguytx at>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

More information about the marketing mailing list