Need some time in a future Marketing Meeting.

Robyn Bergeron robyn.bergeron at
Sun Mar 28 20:44:07 UTC 2010

Comments inline -

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Nelson Marques <07721 at> wrote:
> On Sun, 2010-03-28 at 21:19 +0200, wonderer wrote:
>> Hy Nelson,
>> > meeting to introduce and discuss some topics:
>> >
>> >  * Cultural aspects in Communication - it's importance, as Fedora aims
>> > to an International Community.
>> >  * Consider what we shouldn't associate with Fedora.
>> >  * Symbology and Brand Association
>> >  * Restriction policy towards potential "harmful" symbology
>> >
>> I see your point regarding the mailings you posted also across the
>> ambassadors list. But (me personally) also I think there is at THIS
>> point in time more important work to do regarding upcoming F13 release
>> (feature freeze is already on the move), the marketing tasks already on
>> the move and upcoming marketing tasks. We should have such things in
>> mind if it comes to new slogans and icons and stuff like that, but also
>> know that there are also a Red Hat legal Department which will have a
>> look at our work as far as I know and if there would be a potentional
>> harm there would be persons who let us know about it. Also there are
>> many blogposts, irc discussions, etc. around and if something with bad
>> influence came up it had popped up already.
>> Also I think words like "restriction policy" is here totally wrong.
>> Maybe one tiny section in the upcoming kind of brandbook or Design
>> Guideline should be enough
>> >  Give me 2 weeks to get prepared, set a document and gather some
>> > scientific marketing production to backup this subject and present it.
>> >  If possible I would like to go remote on voice aswell for this.
>> >
>> I think we ALWAYS could find something that can be uses "against" some
>> freedom ideas, symbols, etc. Somebody can say that the "f" look like a
>> hook and associate it with "we hook you up" or "I plow with that hook to
>> your nose" or something more surreal ;-)
>> I'm looking forward to read about your thesis and I know what you mean,
>> but also I think that we are so far really good with "our" symbolism.
>> But thats only my 2Cents :)
> I'm not dumping a thesis neither I will take much time, 20 minutes
> should be enough. All I want to do is to show how symbology, cultures
> and sub-cultures (in the field of Anthropology) are important for our
> work. By ignoring those we are providing free ammunition to be used
> against ourselfs. In a real corporate world, companies like Coca Cola,
> Nike, Citroen and others have already loss loads of money and hurt their
> brands because of small/tiny things like this

20 minutes is not enough to cover what you have listed.  We have major
issues in marketing meetings currently (IMO) just trying to stick to
agendas and topics without losing time, and we can barely get through
agenda items in one hour. You're essentially proposing that we cover
four major discussion topics at 5 minutes apiece, and I'm afraid that
is just unrealistic, given the curiosity levels of our group (which is
a good thing, btw).  The topics are important enough that they should
be allocated an appropriate amount of time; however, in terms of
prioritization, the deliverables that we are currently committed to as
far as the F13 release are just, quite simply, higher priority.  These
are items we have essentially signed our names to as far as on-time
delivery - it is a matter of our own reputations within the community
to get them out the door as agreed.

If you want to have a meeting on a schedule that is not the standard
marketing meeting time, put it on your blog and email to mktg and
ambassadors, then that is certainly permitted.  I would suggest taking
a look at the meeting schedule for the #fedora-meeting rooms at and
pick a time that won't be a conflict for most people.  Right now, we
-need- the scheduled marketing meeting for tracking and/or sprinting
on deliverables right now.
> It is something we can try to achieve. I'm going to place it in the
> Agenda, still today and prepare a small presentation for everyone who
> wants to read it based on some practical examples I am aware off. Then
> if people find it is relevant, good, else, I rest my case and will
> release a document for those who want to read it.
> By the way, this is not an issue in the field of Legal Departments, they
> are not trained in cultural movements/sub-cultures/symbology. This is
> mainly a part of Anthropology, which alongside with some other behavior
> sciences are a part of Marketing.
> And please that "f" example (which I've always associated with inFinity)
> is something rather different. No one was ever arrested and prosecuted
> for such, which people have been arrested and prosecuted in Europe due
> to using the "Hands Horns" gesture, to be precise, 5 people in Italy
> during a Vatican event. So I think this gives a new insight about
> things, considering that 1.1 billion people might feel offended by such
> symbology, which is apparent un-harmfull for US citizens. That sign
> excepting Northern America is deeply related to religion in all the
> places, dodging such topics would be great for us, right ? Not to enter
> the cultural/sub-cultural movements that I referred previously on the
> ambassadors list.
> I'm just trying to help, nothing more, nothing less. And since Red Hat
> owns the Fedora brand, I do think they should send a representative to
> check out if this issues are worth looking or not. I'm pretty sure they
> will agree with some things.

I'm not sure I speak for marketing, ambassadors, or really, anyone
else in the Fedora community - but I, personally, am not down with the
idea of "calling in the Red Hat Referee to see who they agree with."
We have a Board for this purpose, with a mix of people employed and
not employed by Red Hat.  We are a community; what we prioritize as a
community should be agreed upon by the -community-, not by our
sponsor.  (But I'd like to take a moment and say: Thank you, Daddy
Shadowman, for allowing us the freedom to be Fedora!)



> nelson
>> mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards
>> Henrik Heigl - wonderer at
>> PGP/GnuPG: 8237 D432 0616 D567 DBC6  3FE3 0D52 B374 F468 A5F0
> --
> Nelson Marques <07721 at>
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> marketing mailing list
> marketing at

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