[Fedora-packaging] Re: Attention kernel module project packagers!

[Jesse Keating]

On Tuesday 15 August 2006 17:42, Tim Jackson wrote:
> This one has come out of left-field to me. Nobody AFAIK has previously
> proposed throwing out kernel modules altogether.

David Woodhouse proposed it weeks ago.  I've gotten tired enough of this 
discussion and noticed the ways that BOTH methods suck arse that I'm inclined 
to agree with David that packaging of kernel modules is just not something an 
RPM based distro is capable of handling in a clean way.  There are more 
philosophical reasons to not allow kernel modules, but I go into that.

> I also don't think it 
> makes sense because, notwithstanding the RPM problems, there are plenty
> of useful kernel modules that exist and are maintained (for various
> reasons, good or bad, right or wrong) outside the kernel tree. 

This doesn't mean there are room for them in the Fedora project.  Bad reasons 
should be fixed.  Good reasons (like illegal to be in kernel or closed 
source) are unacceptable for the Fedora project.  Once free, always free.

> I don't 
> see why kernel modules are any less useful than other random FE
> packages, just because they're in kernel space. FE is supposed to be a
> maximal set of software, right? 

No, a maximal set of ACCEPTABLE and non-forbidden software that can be 
maintained.  There are "useful" things that aren't acceptable.  Certain 
encryption methods due to US restrictions on the exporting of them.  
Emulators are not acceptable.  Some forms of content are not allowed either:

    *

      Comic book art files
    *

      Religious texts
    *

      mp3 files (patent encumbered)


> That's at odds with a rule disallowing 
> any kernel modules. Why shouldn't kernel modules be included, exactly?
> Excluding them just because of the problems with packaging seems rather
> like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Technical reasons:  By nature they always lag.  They will prevent a user from 
being able to update to new kernels, which could prevent them from getting 
critical security fixes.  Without hand deselecting packages for updates, this 
could also prevent ANY updates from being applied.  Worse, the updates (and 
new kernel) could be installed and the module would not be available, 
preventing the system from functioning.

Supportability.  External modules can and do introduce bugs into the running 
kernel.  They can have adverse but hard to realize problems in a running 
system.  The kernel gets the blame, and bugzilla gets overrun with false 
reports that have nothing to do with the kernel rpm, and everything to do 
with the addon module.  Expecting the kernel maintainer to sort these out and 
triage takes away from his/her precious time.

These are a couple really good reasons in my book to not allow it.

-- 
Jesse Keating
Release Engineer: Fedora
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