[Fedora-packaging] Inaccurate information about LiVES package

[salsaman]

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <
dominik at greysector.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Monday, 31 May 2010 at 10:34, salsaman wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I am the main developer/maintainer of LiVES (
> http://lives.sourceforge.net).
> >
> > I recently noticed the information about LiVES on this page:
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/WishList#L-M
> >
> > The information give about LiVES is inaccurate/incorrect. First of all,
> > LiVES is not dependant on ffmpeg. As in, you can perfectly well build and
> > run the application without ffmpeg being present on either the build
> system
> > or the end user system.
>
> What codecs and containers is LiVES able to process without FFmpeg/MPlayer?
>
>
dv (with libdv), ogg/theora (although ffmpeg is required for vorbis
encoding/decoding), mng (encoding only), animated gif.



>  > However, the ffmpeg libraries are recommended for end users, since LiVES
> > will make indirect use of them (via mplayer) for decoding some video
> > formats, and via mencoder for encoding some video formats.
>
> Well, neither MPlayer nor MEncoder can't be included in any useful form
> in Fedora. We have them in RPMFusion instead.
>
> > I fail to see the reason for this to be sufficient cause for crossing out
> > LiVES.
>
> Is it useful without mplayer and mencoder binaries at all? What can it do
> then?
>
>
You can edit dv, or you could for example load in an image sequence and
encode it to ogg/theora.



>  > A long time ago, ffmpeg contained some allegedly patented code (AAC
> > audio IIRC), however this code was removed from the core of ffmpeg at
> least
> > 5 years ago.
>
> Not true at all. FFmpeg contains a lot of code that implements standards
> that depend on possibly patented "inventions". I've been following FFmpeg
> development almost from the beginning (and I maintain FFmpeg packages in
> RPMFusion) and I don't remember any code being removed from FFmpeg on the
> basis that it was allegedly covered by patents. The AAC case you're
> referring
> to was about licence compatibility, not patents. FAAC was distributed under
> the GPLv2, but it turned out that it contained some code whose licence was
> incompatible with the GPL, so FFmpeg stopped allowing enabling FAAC support
> without --enable-nonfree, because binaries linked with libfaac are not
> distributable.
>
>
Again, what patents are violated by the *core* of ffmpeg (with all non-free
decoders/encoders disabled) ? I think the only codecs included in the core
are probably snow, and the nut container format.



> > If you don't believe me, then how is it that both ffmpeg and LiVES are in
> > debian testing and unstable ? Please check for yourselves, and contact
> the
> > debian legal team if you are still in doubt.
>
> For some reason, Debian seems to include the decoding parts of various
> codecs
> even though they may be covered by some patents. They don't ship any
> encoders
> as far as I know, though. Anyway, even the decoders are not OK for Fedora.
>
>
It depends on which codecs. For example if they include only theora, dv, pcm
and mjpeg decoding then there is no problem. Same with ogg and matroska
container formats.



> > It is particularly timely that I noticed this, as I would like to
> introduce
> > the new packager for LiVES in Fedora, Harry Rickards (harry at linux.com).
> > Harry is also the point of contact between LiVES and the debian
> multimedia
> > team who are responsible for packaging LiVES for debian.
> >
> > I hope that you will correct the information on the wishlist page, stop
> > spreading (unintentional ?) FUD about ffmpeg, and most importantly give
> > Harry every assistance with the Fedora LiVES packages.
>
> We welcome all new packagers with open hands. However, please check your
> facts before going off on a rant and accusing people of spreading FUD.
>
>
When you can show me an actual example of a registered patent which the core
of ffmpeg violates then I will stop. Until then I still regard it as FUD.


Salsaman.


> Regards,
>
> --
> Fedora http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Rathann
> RPMFusion http://rpmfusion.org | MPlayer http://mplayerhq.hu
> "Faith manages."
>        -- Delenn to Lennier in Babylon 5:"Confessions and Lamentations"
> --
> packaging mailing list
> packaging at lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging
>
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