PEP453 // ensurepip // pip

[Donald Stufft]

On Mar 24, 2014, at 5:38 AM, Robert Kuska <rkuska at redhat.com> wrote:

> Hi Donald,
> 
> welcome to our mailing list.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Donald Stufft" <donald at stufft.io>
>> To: python-devel at lists.fedoraproject.org
>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 11:19:49 PM
>> Subject: PEP453 // ensurepip // pip
>> 
>> Hey there,
>> 
>> So I’m one of the authors of PEP453, the original implementor of ensurepip,
>> and
>> a pip maintainer. I know that pip (and other language level package managers)
>> have a sort of love/hate (sometimes more of one or the other!) relationship
>> with the downstream Linux packagers. I know that PEP453 also puts more focus
>> on this in general since it's now a recommendation for pip to be installed
>> if Python is.
>> 
>> So I'd like to say that If there are problems I'd like to help fix them.
>> Especially if there are problems with pip that make you nervous/upset/sad
>> with
> 
> I would say this one https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/1351 is important for us 
> as packagers. It makes me nervous/upset and sad altogether :-).

Awesome, well that’s on the list for 1.6 so that should be the next feature release
of pip.

> 
>> having it tied so closely to Python. Also generally about making less
>> headache
>> for distros where pip is involved (pip and the OS package manager stomping on
>> each other etc).
>> 
>> To start off this goal I've filed https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/1668 to
>> figure out how pip can get our defaults to the point where most users will be
>> installing to ~/.local/ instead of the system location. If there's more
>> things
>> pip can do I'd love to know about them, or if ensurepip or the PEP453
>> processes
>> have something I can help with too :)
> 
> Nice, I have put my two cents in it.
> 
>> 
>> -----------------
>> Donald Stufft
>> PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
>> 
>> 
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> 
> Thank you for bringing up this long-awaited and postponed issue for discussion!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robert Kuska 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> rkuska @ 
> #fedora-devel on freenode
> #brno #gulag #software-collections on brq.redhat


On the topic of re-wheeling (Sorry I just joined so I don’t have it in my history to reply to).

I’m assuming Fedora unbundles the stuff that pip bundles (sorry :/) and I’m guessing that
since the Rewheeling is going to pull in the system versions that it’s going to pull in a
copy of pip with those things unbundled. If that’s the case you’re going to need to install
those things into the virtualenv itself.

However I think that the copy of pip inside of a venv should keep stuff bundled if at all
possible. One of the reasons we did this was so that when using pip inside of a venv
we don’t make any assertions about what other things you can have installed. So for
example we depend on requests, we don’t want someone who is using an older (or newer!)
requests inside of their venv to be unable to install it because pip itself uses it. Also
another reason we did that is because if you uninstall one of those things and it breaks
pip you don’t really have a good way to unbreak it except destroy the venv or install it
manually. This is less of a concern for the system installed pip because you have yum
or whatever that can be used to fix it and y’all integrate things already to ensure compat :)


-----------------
Donald Stufft
PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA

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