updates

[Jef Spaleta]

Michael Young wrote, somewhere in the digest:

>What I can't stress enough is the fact updates for the RHEL beta are
>already in RHN. A beta is a beta, be it RHEL or RHL. So if RH is going
>to release updates for one beta on RHN, why can't they do it for the
>other beta as well?

Actually...RHL is now a 'project' RHEL is still a  'product'...i don't
think how the beta phases for RHL and RHEL are going to look the same,
from this point forward (and i dont think the community at large is
going to want them to). And frankly...since the language at the rhl
webpages, seemed to have redefined what rawhide is going to be used
for....i don't think using up2date for pushing bugfix packages is going
to make sense really... My view of how rhn has been used in beta phases
in the past, has been more about testing rhn functionality, than
providing a service to beta tester to get a stream of updates.
IF the rhlp, is serious about making this a broader community
development effort, then there needs to be a community way to push
updates around. RHN, like it or not....is a redhat support service for
redhat products.   

I'd imagine that at someone there will be updates to a beta channel, in
an effort to test up2date functionality against the beta..to make sure
up2date is working. But i think is a logic error in assuming that RHN
will be the prefered mechanism to get RHLp beta package updates from
this point forward. More likely than not community based proggies like
apt and yum will end up being the preference, if the development process
does broaden out into the community. 

>Everyone seems to be saying I can't use the tools I "purchased" if I
>want to run the betas. So, if I don't want to throw away my money,don't
>beta test. That attitude does not make me feel very welcome in the
>development community.

Here is where you apply a little logic.
Redhat does not support the beta releases.  RHN is essential a support
service...for supported products. The expectation that RHN can be used
to update the beta..ever..just don't make a lot of sense. RHN is not
part of this community 'project'. There needs to be a community based
way of pushing updates around between iso sets...yum apt etc....rhn is
not there to help developers...id imagine rhel is getting active rhn
updates becuase rhel is still a redhat 'product' and is not going to
open up to community based decision making,and a lot of closed beta
testing is going on inhouse for the RHEL stuff.  RHLp isn't going to get
that kind of inhouse private beta testing anymore...so rhl.redhat.com
had me believe when i read it.

I would never buy an entitlement for a beta release...then again i would
never obliterate a functional redhat install that i need working with a
beta either. I buy entitlements to cover my home desktops...and then i
beta test a seperate install. I register that beta install with rhn, and
I wait. When i see updates for the beta, I go to rhn flip the
entitlement over to the beta box just long enough to get the beta
updates and switch it back.  You can't be sure there will EVER be
updates in RHN, I don't know why you expect them...don't bank on
it..don't buy the entitlement for the beta system. I seriously doubt
anyone at redhat expects you to buy entitlements for the beta....and it
takes minimal effort to switch an active entitlement over when and if
you need to test rhn on the beta install.

But lets talk about the issue of what would happen if redhat gave
everybody running a beta install a freebie entitlement. Everyone would
run a beta install...and redhat's rhn bandwidth would get munched by
beta updates...not cool.  If this really is going to be a more open
development project...then there needs to be a community way to push
updates around during these beta phases. RHN is a redhat service, which
does need its own amount of beta testing, but its not a community based
service...at least not yet...have to wonder if the idea of 3rd party
channel through rhn  tied to say yum repos will gain a little traction
if redhat ever get around to targeting the home desktop userbase. 
Now that the language surrounding what rawhide is suppose to be has
changed(according to the rhl website when i read it) there needs some
community based ways to get access to those beta updates that appear in
rawhide. 

-jef"wouldn't it be great if i could configure my up2date client to look
for updates on community add-on channels like fedora? Or failing
that...having an applet icon notifier that would work in a similar way
for apt or yum based repos i could use to give me a heads up about
updates"spaleta

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