Please _do not_ strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

[David Timms]

Fulko.Hew at sita.aero wrote:

>Dave Atkins <thedave at ix.netcom.com> on  02/01/2006 12:48 PM responded with:
>  
>
>>On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 21:09 -0800, Miles Lane wrote:
>>. . .
>>    
>>
>>If it's down to voting for one or the other, I can't stand applications
>>that steal the focus or the foreground.
>>    
>>
>
>I agree with that statement.  Applications that are already running
>shouldn't steal focus,  However the first window an application creates
>should _always_ be on top.
>  
>
What if in your terminal you type in succession:
oocalc &
mozilla &
mplayer &
and every app takes 5-10-15 seconds to show ? (like if you don't have 
the fastest / most recent machine on the block).
Do you want the first one you started to end up on top, the second or 
the third ? Or maybe the fastest, (which you start typing in) then 
second fastest comes over top, stealing the focus, then third fastest.
When I work, the other apps are just tools that I know I'll be needing 
soon; and I want them to be ready for my input when I am ready to give 
them some work (focus) to do.

>I really don't understand why you would want to start an application,
>and yet have its window buried underneath everything else.
>After all, the reason you executed it, was to use it.
>
>For the last 20 years the convention has been that when an
>application is executed, its window appears on the top of
>the stack.  This shouldn't change.
>  
>
Yes, it really should change. Forcing people to do things in a less than 
productive way for a long time doesn't make it right or better! Think of 
your computer as your personal assistant: tell it to go do something; 
when _you_ are ready respond to the results (app) that it has created, 
you change the focus yourself using Alt-Tab (or the mouse if you want to 
do it the slow way).

>And if you started an app to use it later, then its your responsibility
>to push it down the stack wherever _you_ want.
>  
>
No, I'm doing work involving multiple apps (even maybe testing FC). I 
need to gedit  a log file, open bugzilla in a browser, and do a dir 
list. While these separate apps are starting up, I re-started the app 
again from the menu etc / blah.

>...
>And finally, to have special code in a terminal emulator that is trying
>to second guess what to do based on the timing of typing is ridiculous.
>  
>
I agree it's not worth changing the default behaviour for terminals 
because the new way is better.

>> Try using internet explorer
>>while working in word, and see how distracting it is.
>>    
>>
>I'm not to sure I understand what your compalining about.
>When I use 'word' its on top, and has focus, any painting IE does,
>or any other app for that matter, happens underneath.  (BTW I always
>use overlapping windows, not full screen windows.)
>  
>
What about a web site that waits a bit then pops up another window, 
right over the top of where you are typing in oowriter. Another great 
reason for focus to stay on what you are working on. You'll get to those 
other apps when _you_ are ready for them, not when it eventually 
finishes loading. You are the master; the computer is _your_ slave :)

>>I have really become accustomed to indicating with my mouse onto which
>>window I want in front, and into which window I'd like to type.
>>    
>>
>Agreed, but thats once everything has started.
>  
>
Alt-Tab has been around a long time for switching to next window (which 
in this case turns out to be the one you are yet to click on and pre 
started).
If I have an email with some pages of text, and a link or attachment, I 
would prefer to click on the attachment, causing it to preload while I 
continue to read the rest of the email. When I finish reading the mail, 
I alt-tab to the created window. This is a time saving way to work. I 
get enough interuptions all day without the computer interupting me!

>... snip ...
>
>Hopefully, this is 'start under' broken behavious a only a gnome thing,
>and KDE doesn't turn its back on 20 years of standards
>  
>
Hopefully, this much better behaviour becomes standard soon, and on all 
operating systems.
DaveT.