"install everything" and @everything dumped

[Jim Cornette]

Axel Thimm wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 06:51:53PM +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote:
>> On Fri, 2006-02-24 at 00:19 +0100, Axel Thimm wrote:
>>> I was about to submit a bug report that neither does the installer
>>> simply allow my to throw the full contents of the DVD onto my disk
>>> anymore, nor do any of my kickstart files work with FC5 anymore, when
>>> I found that this was not a bug or a temporary shortcoming, but was
>>> done on purpose (at least according to a post by R. Sundaram which
>>> sounded quite authoritative).
>>
>> you assume it's even possible to (sanely) install all packages, which I
>> think already was not the case for a while, with an increasing number of
>> special cases to keep the "almost everything" install working....
>>
>> (kernels and other rpms with conflicting files etc etc)
> 
> Yes, I know, that was always the case. And "everything" meant just that.
> 
> An everything install option should had been even a must for the test
> releases. There are bugs that emerge only in bad synergies of
> packages.
> 
> I just installed FC5t3, clicked on any funny checkbox there was and I
> get a system w/o emacs ...
> 
> BTW I found a bugzilla entry [2] which contrary to R. Sundaram's
> report [1] stated that this was just due to missing yum glue and not a
> permanent state:
> 
> [1] http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showpost.php?p=438011&postcount=4
> [2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=177621
> 
> Let's hope a coming rawhide cut will have this restored in one way or
> another.
> 

So basically lack of resolution in the yum program and hesitation for 
upstream to compromise on additional patches to enable more user 
discretion is the problem. Also the policy for Fedora to track upstream 
as closely as possible is a drawback to supplying a patch to resolve the 
problem.

I admire the upstream work and strong adherence to the individualistic 
goals upstream desires. I however see the benefits for everything 
installation as a possibility "best effort" dependency and installation 
efforts to be crucial for managing a system. Divergence from upstream 
might allow for a more controllable and better suited final product.

If further divergent development is needed, it might be wise to follow 
an independent direction and diverge as needed.

Basically, the goal of the project to keep in line with upstream is 
great and the best policy for a more unified look for development of 
programs which are included within the distribution. The only problem 
with complete reliance to conform with upstream policy is you get what 
they decide to accept. The pitfalls are you get a less capable updating 
mechanism and in the terms of GNOME, whatever upstream decides to push 
onto the downstream users/developers.

GOALS:

- The ability to install everything if desired.
- The ability to have your system install all the packages which have 
satisfied dependencies resolved.
- program behaviors to satisfy the user instead of "best for the user's 
own good".
- not having a system that pretty darn well matches MS in downright 
disgraceful behavior. (KDE)
- Not having a desktop where customization and completely stupid ideas. 
(gss and nautilus browsing behavior) are pushed into the desktop to 
spite user feedback to the contrary. (GNOME)
- A desktop which is customizable, feature rich and incorporates within 
it what is useful and attractive to the end user.

Sorry, I'm stuck in KDE and am experiencing a lot of MS windows behavior 
because metacity is crashed in GNOME and the windows switcher or program 
contol are gone without a decent windows manager. I believe it is time 
to depart from metacity and incorporate enlightenment or another window 
manager. Metacity even cut out the windows managing feature. This is 
base for what the program is supposed to accomplish in the first place. 
Simplicity is not the answer. Upstream co-operation with project goals 
and usability and customizability are better served with divergence from 
upstream.

Jim

-- 
"One lawyer can steal more than a hundred men with guns."
-- The Godfather