FC5T2 ready for even a test release?

[Rahul Sundaram]

Hi

>>What are you using your system for?. Is it a
>>desktop/workstation/server/development system?. Doesnt it fit into one
>>of these profiles?
>>    
>>
>
>Correct, It doesn't fit.  My usage profile (like many others on this
>list) is a superset of those categories.
>I've found that none of the existing profiles suits my needs.
>They each have something missing.  My laptop is:
> - a desktop,
> - a workstation,
> - a server
> - a development system.
>
>Because I use the 'desktop' of my 'workstation' to 'develop' 'server'
>applications.
>  
>
Question is whether this use case is usual enough to justify adding more 
options to the installer. There always will be users who dont fit into 
one of the usual profiles that will have to use kickstart. That is one 
of the major reasons it exists really. We can modify the profiles and 
fine tune them to specific level or build separate targets like Fedora 
Server, Fedora Desktop and so on and you can do a everything installation.


>Actually, given your attitude against the 'all' profile,
>you can't really justify having a 'workstation', or server', or
>any other arbitrary profile either.  Given your rationalization,
>they whould all be removed too!
>  
>
They are specific targets. Everything installation is not.

>  
>
>
>The point is, as has been mentioned a million time already in this thread,
>Its a great inconvienience to have to push every button manually.
>Especially in light of the fact that this feature:
>  _used_ to exist,
>  _was_ being used by a lot of people.
>  and has been _removed_.
>
>Its not as if we are asking for a 'new' feature,
>we just want our 'old' feature back.
>  
>
 Its not merely development code.  The development code itself has been 
rewritten to use yum. So the installer has to reimplement the feature 
and not merely bring back a old one. Its removed due to support costs 
associated with it.

>
>  
>
>>Thats
>>what we are trying to fix already. If you dont use yum to keep yourself
>>updated installing everything is dangareous since it brings in potential
>>security issues with packages you wouldnt even use.
>>    
>>
>
>
>Yup, and I/we are willing to risk that, and deal with the issues.
>  
>
Those who are loud arent necessarily right.

>>You waste disk space by installing packages you wouldnt use. You will to
>>keep packages updated. Performance would do down with deamons and other
>>session programs. You would be installing tons of world languages which
>>you wouldnt be using and so on.
>>    
>>
>
>
>Yup.  wasting disk space is _our_ choice, not yours.
>
Definitely. Use kickstart or yum. Nobody is holding you but whether it 
should be available as a Anaconda is what we are trying to determine here.

>  You select the
>packages you want to install, and we get to select the packages _we_ want
>to
>install.
>
>Performance issues... yup. we will live with it.
>world languages...    yup, we will live with it.
>  
>
Please dont use rhetoric.

>
>
>You have received a lot of feedback and justification for having it
>re-instated,
>but you seem to be reluctant to accept the fact that:
>
>"PEOPLE WANT IT BACK".
>  
>
People want several choices and features. While it is a good point it 
doesnt by itself justify the existance of a feature. It has to be 
associated with good rationale behind them. We can only provide a subset 
of all the choices and featuers people ever want. Remember again that 
each and every feature has a associated development and support cost. 
When people want features it is the developer's job to understand them 
in detail before implementing them to enable it to happen in a optimal way.

>It seems to me that there are more people, with more justifications that
>want
>it back, than you and your rationalizations.
>  
>
Your opinion is different from mine. Thats all.

>(Please note that I _am_ trying to be civil about this.)
>  
>
Thank you for being civil. Lets end the conversation here since it 
doesnt bring in the discussions that I wanted to see happen . I will let 
the Anaconda developers decide. Thanks

-- 
Rahul 

Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers