2010-01-04 @ 16:00 UTC - Fedora QA Meeting Recap

James Laska jlaska at redhat.com
Mon Jan 4 18:36:34 UTC 2010

As always, minutes and irc log available at

= Attendees =

People present (lines said)

* jlaska (154)
* adamw (57)
* Viking-Ice (19)
* maxamillion (17)
* wwoods (12)
* kparal (8)
* nirik (4)
* zodbot (3)
* buggbot (1)


* [[User:Liam]]
* [[User:Rhe]]

= Agenda =

[https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2010-January/msg00015.html Proposed meeting agenda]
* [FIXME meetbot summary]

== Previous meeting follow-up ==

# jlaska to post recommendations on F-12 QA retrospective
#* See [[Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Recommendations]]
# adamw to escalate security policy issue to fesco
#* See https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/297
# jlaska to set up a meeting to co-ordinate test plan changes for F13
#* Hosted a small team sprint the week prior to Christmas with Liam,
Hurry, Adam and myself to work through
[https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&component=Test+Review&milestone=Fedora+13&order=priority open F-13 test planning tickets]
# adamw and jlaska to look at setting up f13 test day process
#* Ideas posted to [[Talk:QA/Fedora_13_test_days]]
#* Adam and James to continue discussion

== F-13 Recommendations ==

Discussion around the proposed QA changes for F-13 based on
[[Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Recommendations]].  Begin identifying gaps
and owners.

=== Process ===

See [[Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Process_4]]

Move User:Liam/Draft_Install_Test_SOP out of draft status - to me this
is part of making install testing easier.

Move User:Poelstra/blocker_bug_meeting_sop out of draft status - adamw
had some improvements during FUDCon, I think we just need to dust it off
before the blocker reviews kick in again

Draft a SOP (or extract from existing BugsAndFeatureRequests page) that
describes how to document bugs (e.g. common_bugs or release notes or
install guide etc...).  Adamw noted that while no single page exists
now, each location includes information on how to contribute.  Adamw and
Jlaska wondered if there was a way to provide a single page that links
to existing documentation so that we can easily direct the efforts of
testers who wish to provide documentation/workarounds for bugs they've
found.  jlaska took action to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on
how to document the process (or point to existing documentation) for how
bugs are noted (common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to
determine which bugs land in which place

Draft/promote a recommended test checklist for rawhide testers (for
example see User:Jlaska/Draft2) - this is something spot discussed a
while ago and adamw drafted an idea. I think it would be worthwhile to
reference from the QA/Joining page ... ideas?

'How to debug <component> problems?' -- Determine whether guides can be
offered by Fedora QA as a result of a test day/feature process.
Viking-Ice asked for more details.  Jlaska explained that this was
largely intended to follow the successful model Viking-Ice initiated by
starting the debugging guide for the F-12 dracut feature (see
[[How_to_debug_Dracut_problems]]).  Viking-Ice offered to review the
list of upcoming features for good debug guide candidates (see

Adamw offered assistance adding/improving installation testing to the
current QA activities page.

=== Planning ===

See [[Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Test_Planning_3]]

Jlaska noted that Liam and Hurry are doing a lot of heavy lifting with
regards to beefing up the installation test plan.  There are several
wiki improvements coming aimed to improve posting test results, new test
cases for yum repos, a lot of improvements to existing tests and a
reorganization of priorities based on the updated release criteria.

Adam reminded the group that a ticket has been filed for FESCO review
regarding a security checklist/test plan.  Adam also started drafting
test cases to cover the desktop verification from
[[Fedora_Release_Criteria]] (see

Viking-Ice raised the topic of creating an xorg-x11-drv test plan.  Adam
mentioned that this was a big discussion topic during the team sprint.
The problem space is that we want to test available X hardware.  The
community provides this pool of hardware, but we have no means to gather
and organize feedback in the short timeframe that would be meaningful
for the X developers.  The current test coverage for X consists of
driver-specific test days (intel, nouveau and radeon), and providing
information to aid testers to properly triage failures (see

Viking-Ice, nirik and Adamw discussed fedoraforum.org user feedback.
Adam felt that the 2 biggest areas of feedback were around 1) ''HELP MY
WORK''.  The first area is already covered, and the second point is out
of our scope.

Viking-Ice took action to investigate adding an LXDE test day to the
F-13 test day schedule.  Similarly, maxamillion took action to schedule
an XFCE test day on the F-13 test day schedule.

Jlaska took an action item to reach out to [[User:Mclasen]] for
information on any Fit'n'Finish test day plans for F-13.

=== Communication ===

See [[Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Communication_4]]

Adam offered assistance improving the QA wiki pages to include any
install activities.  Jlaska suggested that Hurry had some initial ideas
here, and perhaps they could sync up.

=== Automation ===

See [[Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Test_Automation]]

Not a lot of discussion on this point during hte meeting since each
meeting typically devotes time AutoQA status updates.  

While discussing 'Deploying AutoQA 'is rawhide broken?', Jlaska was
reminded to reach out to fedora-{test,devel}-list for trading package

Some discussion followed on whether rpmlint and rpmguard should be
merged.  Kparal suggested that the two projects have different goals and
there is value in keeping them separate. 

Wwoods noted that assisting Liam and Hurry by helping to build the
autoqa install automation fundamentals would be a focus area for the new
year.  Will mentioned the inputs needed for any install test; 1) a
description of the test system, 2) a URL to a kickstart file, 3) a URL
to an install source.  Jlaska noted that he included those three points
in an email to Liam before the break.  Jlaska will catch up with Liam to
see if he is having fun with python.

== Open discussion - <Your topic here> ==

= Upcoming QA events =

* 2010-01-21 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1
* 2010-01-28 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
* 2010-01-04 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #3
* 2010-02-05 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #1
* 2010-02-11 - Test Alpha 'Test Compose' (boot media testing)
* 2010-02-12 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #2

= Action items =

* Viking-Ice investigating adding an LXDE test day to the F-13 test day
* maxamillion investigating scheduling a XFCE test day to F-13 test day
* adamw and rhe to discuss ways to add install testing as a QA activity
* jlaska will reach out to mclasen for thoughts on F-13 fit'n'finish
test days
* jlaska to reach out ot fedora-{test,devel}-list for trading reviews
* jlaska to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document
the process (or point to existing documentation) for how bugs are noted
(common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to determine
which bugs land in which place

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