will F18 allow simultaneous installation of more than one desktop?

[Christopher A. Williams]

On Sat, 2012-07-07 at 08:14 -0600, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
> On 07/07/12 03:15 AM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
> > On 07/06/2012 07:10 PM, Andre Robatino wrote:
> >> I attempted installation using Fedora-20120703-x86_64-916dfe7-netinst.iso and
> >> found that it only allows choosing one desktop. I normally install both Gnome
> >> and KDE at this point and asked about it on #anaconda. Dlehman it was not
> >> planned to support that, and regarding installing other desktops afterwards and
> >> choosing between them at the login prompt, he said that wasn't up to them, but
> >> personally he frowned on that practice.
> >
> > I agree with David the installer should not support that and also frown upon that practice.
> 
> Exactly what is so bad with "that practice" (of installing both desktops) as to "frown upon it"?
> 
> I am a KDE user and yet I still install Gnome on my machine. Exactly what crime do I commit?

Add me to that list. I've been using Fedora since FC1, and RHL before
that since RHL 4. I've always installed multiple desktops, and still use
and sometimes switch between them today. It used to be that, even if you
installed only one DE between Gnome and KDE, you still got the essential
libraries to run apps from the other.

If anything, it's bad practice to segregate the apps by DE. You are
essentially bifurcating the distro by doing so.

> > I also think that once the novice end user has choose in his DE in the installer he should only be
> > presented with packages/applications targeted specifically for that desktop environment if he should
> > be presented with options to install additional packages et al...
> >
> >> If it's not possible to have more than one desktop installed, it makes changing
> >> desktops much harder (clean install?) and someone who doesn't like Gnome Shell,
> >> for example, may well decide to change distros rather than try a different
> >> desktop. Personally, I use Gnome, but install KDE just to have the KDE packages
> >> available while using Gnome. Would this become impossible?
> >
> > I dont think this argument holds much water.
> 
> I am another _real_ data point showing that Fedora users actually do that (that = install both 
> desktops to have access to packages from both of them).

Agreed. Absolutely this argument does hold water. What doesn't hold
water is the notion that every DE must be physically segregated.
Clearly, people use more than one DE on Fedora today and mix apps from
multiple DEs without a second thought. Why should you, in the name of
"helping" novice users, take this capability away when it wasn't hurting
anything to begin with?

> > Novice end users would be more likely to download an alternative ( encase of an live cd/usb ) from
> > the same distribution and try it out since they are already familiar with the the process of
> > downloading and ( or re)installing the OS and experience users that want to run multiple DE's can
> > already install another one once they have successfully finished installing the distribution.

This argument is sending my BS-O-Meter into overdrive. Novice users
don't know there are different DEs, and they won't re-install their
entire systems just to try another one out. By going this direction, you
are removing flexibility and capability from Fedora. Further, you are
segregating the Fedora community by DE. That's neither good nor is it
necessary.

> This is once again an imaginary, or made-up user, so that you can support your arguments and ignore 
> real Fedora users. How is it that this practice of making up users to support cases for writing 
> software for idiots has spread so much lately? Write software for your users and not imaginary 
> "idiots", please!
> 
> "Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof 
> programs, and the universe which strives to produce bigger idiots. So far the Universe is winning."


Agreed. And I fear the universe, in this case, may be winning by
producing "bigger idiot" developers.

Chris

-- 
Christopher A. Williams <chriswfedora at cawllc.com>