will F18 allow simultaneous installation of more than one desktop?

[David Lehman]

On Sat, 2012-07-07 at 08:14 -0600, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
> On 07/07/12 03:15 AM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
> > On 07/06/2012 07:10 PM, Andre Robatino wrote:
> >> I attempted installation using Fedora-20120703-x86_64-916dfe7-netinst.iso and
> >> found that it only allows choosing one desktop. I normally install both Gnome
> >> and KDE at this point and asked about it on #anaconda. Dlehman it was not
> >> planned to support that, and regarding installing other desktops afterwards and
> >> choosing between them at the login prompt, he said that wasn't up to them, but
> >> personally he frowned on that practice.
> >
> > I agree with David the installer should not support that and also frown upon that practice.
> 
> Exactly what is so bad with "that practice" (of installing both desktops) as to "frown upon it"?
> 
> I am a KDE user and yet I still install Gnome on my machine. Exactly what crime do I commit?

Only being unwilling to choose a camp. Not even a crime, really.

> 
> 
> > I also think that once the novice end user has choose in his DE in the installer he should only be
> > presented with packages/applications targeted specifically for that desktop environment if he should
> > be presented with options to install additional packages et al...
> >
> >> If it's not possible to have more than one desktop installed, it makes changing
> >> desktops much harder (clean install?) and someone who doesn't like Gnome Shell,
> >> for example, may well decide to change distros rather than try a different
> >> desktop. Personally, I use Gnome, but install KDE just to have the KDE packages
> >> available while using Gnome. Would this become impossible?
> >
> > I dont think this argument holds much water.
> 
> I am another _real_ data point showing that Fedora users actually do that (that = install both 
> desktops to have access to packages from both of them).

There are plenty of very vocal minority groups here.

> 
> 
> > Novice end users would be more likely to download an alternative ( encase of an live cd/usb ) from
> > the same distribution and try it out since they are already familiar with the the process of
> > downloading and ( or re)installing the OS and experience users that want to run multiple DE's can
> > already install another one once they have successfully finished installing the distribution.
> 
> This is once again an imaginary, or made-up user, so that you can support your arguments and ignore 
> real Fedora users. How is it that this practice of making up users to support cases for writing 
> software for idiots has spread so much lately? Write software for your users and not imaginary 
> "idiots", please!

I can tell you from personal experience that Fedora has both real and
imaginary idiots. Just kidding. We have two opposing groups of users:
Those who think the installer should have a knob for whatever their
obscure pet option is, and those who believe it should be a
highly-polished, streamlined interface along the lines of MacOS. These
are fundamentally in opposition and it is impossible to please both
camps entirely.

> 
> "Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof 
> programs, and the universe which strives to produce bigger idiots. So far the Universe is winning."
> 
> Do you really strive to produce more and better idiots?

We strive to provide an environment in which the idiots can play in
relative safety (the graphical installer) while also offering an
alternative environment for the geniuses to do whatever crazy thing they
think they need to do (kickstart).

Disclaimer: All uses of the word "idiot" are in good fun, and apply as
much to myself as anyone else.