Browsers for those IE-only sites

Robin Laing Robin.Laing at
Fri Jun 24 21:05:49 UTC 2005

Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On 6/24/05, Robin Laing <Robin.Laing at> wrote:
>>This a cop-out.  It is being lazy.  There are many standards based WWW
>>sites that use the same tools.  The Webmasters take the time to
>>configure and build the correct templates to ensure compliance and
>>test their pages.  Again, it is the designer to ensure that they
>>follow the standards.  Lazy designers create crappy pages.
> It may be a cop-out for english websites where you have so many to
> choose from. Walla, the Israeli version of Yahoo, has almost no
> competition. She must continue to use her Walla email address, but the
> site just doesn't work on firefox or Opera. I have sent them numerous
> emails. They're response is: get a windows computer. And we have one,
> so why shouldn't we use it (her argument). If there are viruses
> running around in it, she doesn't notice. It JustWorks (in the words
> of another popular poster).

I was just at a IE only site or at least MS only site as the java 
calls didn't work.  Of course my java settings could have prevented 
them from working.

Again, the standards are for the Internet, not just english version of 
the Internet.  They are just being lazy.

The standards

The standards validator.

Any decent webmaster will know how to use the validator.  If they 
don't then in my book they cannot be a decent webmaster.
>>Yet my wife wants a new laptop and it has to have Linux on it.  She
>>cannot stand the crashes and virus problems.  Heck, she has an new Mac
>>laptop for work but she still wants to get a Linux notebook.  I love
>>my wife for this.  :)
> What's her number? Is she cute? Oh, wait, shes already married... So am I...

Same as mine.  I think so.  :)

>>My wife uses OOo for both home and work as it works better than MS
>>Office when moving documents between different users.  She came across
>>her first problem with OOo beta last night.  I downloaded the latest
>>beta but I don't know if it is working.
> For her studies they have to turn the papers in in .doc format. This
> and that width, so and so height, that font, this margin,... She NEEDS
> that stupid program. Or should I tell her to find a new,
> standards-compliant professsor?

OOo 2.0 seems to be much better at this point.  In fact better than 
between different versions of MS Office.  Heck because of problems 
between MS Office, many around work here either use OOo or LaTex. 
Depending on here studies, then standard compliance should be 
important.  Point the professor to OASIS.

>>As you say, your wife doesn't care about the headaches but let windows
>>trash itself and slowdown due to spyware and trojans and see what she
>>thinks then.
> Truth is (don't tell this to Ety), I think that Fedora is sluggish.
> Even if MS is slowed-down because of trash, it is responsive. And the
> start-up time is about on third that of FC3/4.

I find that strange.  I have to do some work on a Windows XP pro 
machine and I find that it is so very slow.  The machines are the same.

>>Let your wife buy her own computer and let her know that she has to
>>maintain it.  Let her know the work that is involved.  Of course many
>>people say XP Pro is very stable but not from my experience.
> Maintaining linux is easy? She doesn't know how to cd into the
> Desktop!!! That's the worst argument I've ever heard- that maintaining
> a linux box is easier than maintaining a windows box. Come on. Think
> of a better one than that!

If you want to make it easy just run update via cron.  All done.  I 
don't but it takes only a few minutes to do it and it doesn't 
interfere with work.  Not like Winodws that requires reboots with 
almost everything.  I hate rebooting.  My 8 yr old can even make 
changes to her desktop and stuff.  This is self taught.

>>As my retired father said to me a week ago.  Linux just works and works.
> Linux doesn't just work and work. It takes maintaining (yum,
> configuration). I plug the windows box into the cable modem and I'm
> online. The Linux box took me over two hours to get online, and that
> was while I was searching google on the windows machine for answers! I
> don't mind, but that may be because I like to get my hands dirty. Ety
> doesn't. She wants to use a computer, not maintain a computer. Like
> going to the zoo to see elephants instead of raising one at home (we
> have a dog and a rat, no elephant). I happen to 1) like Linux, and 2)
> dislike windows. Thats why I use it. Ety likes 1) windows and 2) me.

My father uses a program for ham radio work.  There are Linux boxes 
put in sites that have not had human access for over a year.  They are 
still working.

I do admit I had a problem with FC1 when I first installed it on my 
home computer.  I couldn't get the ATI video card to work, even with 
the ATI drivers.  Turned out that the ATI drivers didn't support the 
3D on the card.  Got a nVidia card and all is well.

Attaching to a cable modem can be a headache depending on teh 
provider.  My mother-in-law requires a stupid program to connect and 
that is a problem.  Again I will give you credit here as the ISP 
probably provided a disk to setup the computer.  Put in and the 
software is installed and configured.  Mention Linux to them and they 
sound as stunded as a deer in headlights.

Robin Laing

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