Java problem

Sat Dec 29 22:15:34 UTC 2007

Les Mikesell wrote:
> Craig White wrote:
>
>> ----
>> openNMS isn't packaged or distributed with Fedora is it?
>
> No, I'm not interested in being restricted to the subset of programs 
> that are included in a distribution.  Are you?
>
>> ----
>>>> not if you run
>>>> alternatives --config java # and set it to Sun's installation
>>> But it doesn't work with Sun's RPM, which my point.
>> ----
>> it doesn't? It has worked for me on Fedora 7/8 CentOS 5 and RHEL 5
>>
>> I must be lucky then.
>> ----
>
> It's more than luck.  It's a miracle if that happened after just 
> installing Sun's RPM.
>
>> ----
>>>  And RedHat does for their paying up2date customers, while still 
>>> claiming they "can't" redistribute for fedora users: 
>>> http://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHEA-2007-0582.html
>> ----
>> but that is on a separate CD and isn't installed by anaconda. It's no
>> different than you can download directly from Sun and it isn't even the
>> current version
>> ----
>
> Ummm, somehow I'd expect a package named 
> java-1.5.0-sun-1.5.0.13-1jpp.1.el5.i586.rpm to have the jpackage style 
> additions that RH makes necessary instead of being the stock Sun rpm.
>
>> seriously though, java just hasn't been a problem for me and I've been
>> fooling with it quite a bit lately with Alfresco, docbook-XSL and even
>> managed to implement ruby-java-bridge for ongoing Ruby on Rails
>> development.
>
> It's not completely impossible to make it work but not trivial and I 
> think you have to admit that you aren't an average user.
>
>> ----
>>> The only straightfoward way I've found is the yummable version at 
>>> the opennms site, with dropping the sun binary under /usr/java and 
>>> replacing every shred of the alternatives system you can find with 
>>> direct symlinks as a distant second.
>> ----
>> again...opennms is not a fedora/redhat package so it's pre-requisites
>> are not of fedora packaging concerns.
>
> Yes, that's a generic complaint that the packagers don't give a crap 
> if anyone else's stuff works or about cooperating with anyone else.  
> Your comment seems to imply that should be assumed and accepted.
>
>> Do you really run opennms on a
>> Fedora system anyway? I thought you were more inclined to install stuff
>> like this on an 'Enterprise' type server.
>
> No, but historically if something is broken in fedora, it will be 
> equally broken for the next 7 years when the RH cut happens.  They 
> fixed the brokenness after the fact in RHEL5 with the package I 
> pointed out, but CentOS doesn't carry it and fedora users don't get it.
>
>
>> I just looked at the openNMS site and it appears that java isn't
>> included in openNMS packages so you still have to manage a separate
>> install.
>
> You can install it separately if you want, but their yum repository 
> includes the jdk.  Click/install the appropriate yum config from
> http://yum.opennms.org/ (you'll want the 'unstable' version). Then 
> 'yum install opennms' to get everything and you are up to the 
> 'Configure OpenNMS' heading on 
> http://www.opennms.org/index.php/Installation:Yum.
>
> A few minutes compared to several weeks of looking for jpackage'd SUN 
> instructions before that - Oh, and the CentOS5 tomcat didn't work with 
> the Sun JDK until an update a few months after release because the 
> jars were built with the broken included java - apparently RH fixed 
> theirs somewhat earlier but Centos didn't catch it.  This version 
> doesn't need tomcat but the earlier ones did.
>
>> By the way, I've been using Zenoss which appears to be similar to
>> OpenNMS...have you any comparison to offer?
>
> Haven't used Zenoss, but OpenNMS compares favorably to anything I've 
> ever seen in terms of autodiscovery and assuming that you have enough 
> machines that you don't want to see them all on the screen at once. It 
> auto-discovers services and notifies you when they stop, and graphs 
> interface/cpu/memory/disk SNMP values with sensible defaults. 
> Considering the huge framework underneath it, I'm impressed by the 
> current rapid development without breaking anything.  As an example of 
> what it can do, if you enable link discovery and have snmp on your 
> switches it will show what devices are connected to each switch port. 
> It can do maps, but that's not a real strong point.  It's better at 
> consolidating the problems on a viewable screen and doing 
> notifications on errors and thresholds.  It's weak link is that some 
> of the configuration still has to be done by editing xml files 
> although each revision moves more control into the web interface.  I'm 
> also impressed by the ability to grab the svn source and rebuild a 
> trunk snapshot with the build script pulling in all of the components 
> you need.
>
>> ----
>>> I think its amusing that Linux browser plugins haven't worked for so 
>>> long, yet it is so highly touted.
>> ----
>> which ones don't work for you? That hasn't been an issue for me
>
> 64 bit java and flash (both are supposed to work in Solaris), and 
> probably others.
>
>> ----
>>> I had hoped that Nexenta was going to give us the perfect 
>>> combination of OpenSolaris with zfs and an up to date Ubuntu based 
>>> userland, but the team seems to have gotten sidetracked building a 
>>> commercial file server appliance first.  Maybe Apple will get their 
>>> zfs out soon.
>> ----
>> begin holding your breath now. When Apple does get around to releasing
>> something like this, it should only take a few updates to actually get
>> it to work as they seem stuck in a perpetual beta loop. Apple
>> continually ships broken software - i.e. Back to My Mac
>> http://db.tidbits.com/article/9346 / Quicktime which has had a horrible
>> year wrt security issues and on and on.
>
> So which one is perfect? There's nothing particularly mac-specific in 
> the problems of connecting inbound through NAT routers. At least Apple 
> doesn't just say 'you can't have it because its license isn't 
> restrictive enough to be called free'.  And they don't go out of their 
> way to make their system difficult to use with 3rd party programs - 
> mostly, anyway.
>
    I recall getting java from Sun because Open Office said it would not 
work well without it. So spent part of a day getting it working BECAUSE 
FEDORA DOES NOT PLAN FOR A USER TO TO THIS, BUT COULD, and finally got 
the little man in the box to jump around on the web page.

    Went to Open Office and tried all of them and really can't say I saw 
any difference. So either I can't see what it did or it didn't do much.

Karl


-- 

	Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
	Linux User
	#450462   http://counter.li.org.
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