I love IP Tables....

[Les]

On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 13:25 -0600, David G. Miller wrote:

> Manuel Arostegui Ramirez <manuel at todo-linux.com> write:
> 
> > El Martes, 29 de Mayo de 2007 07:30, David G. Miller escribió:
> >   
> >> >
> >> > Unfortunately, I know quite a few idiots who own computers.  They don't
> >> > want to spend the money or take the time to learn how not to get
> >> > infected by malware of whatever type.  I set them up with Spybot or
> >> > something similar and the next thing I know, they've turned it off
> >> > because it interferes with the latest free toolbar or dancing gerbils
> >> > they want.  I tell them why they need it and they don't want to hear it;
> >> > they just want their dancing gerbils.  SIGH.
> >> >
> >>     
> >
> > The thing here, from my point of view, is the fact that your hobbies do not 
> > have to be the same ones as the rest of your friends or whoever.
> > I do understand people who only use the computer for basic things such as MSN 
> > Messenger, Word and to check their emails.
> > Do you really think they should know about security? IMHO, No.
> > I drive a car, yes, but I'm not interested in more than that, actually.
> > I guess lot of people would blame me because I don't look after my engine when 
> > changing gears, for instance. What I wanna mean is that me, you and most of 
> > the human beings do not take care or pay attention to things they're not 
> > really interested in. Don't mind whether you agree or not, this is the way it 
> > has been and this is the way it's gonna be.
> > So if you still think a 70-year-old woman with white hair who wants to send 
> > and email to her niece living in another city is resposible of not-knowing 
> > about viruses and malware...good for you.
> I've used th analogy of cars when discussing this subject.  It actually 
> fits fairly well.  I don't expect every driver to be able to disassemble 
> and re-assemble their car.  Likewise, I don't expect every driver to 
> attend a defensive or professional driving class so they can evade like 
> James Bond.  What I do expect is that everyone who owns a car maintains 
> it well enough that it is not a danger to others and that they pay 
> enough attention to driving instead of eating, talking on their cell 
> phone, texting or whatever that they don't become a menace to others.
> 
> For computers that means either running and learning how to secure an OS 
> such as Linux or *BSD or, if they run Windows, installing a decent 
> anti-virus program and running a firewall.  I spend a couple minutes a 
> day verifying that chkrootkit didn't find anything malicious and 
> logwatch is just reporting nominal stuff.  For Windows boxes it's even 
> easier since anti-virus products like Norton scan the system at start-up 
> and then actively scan incoming e-mail, etc.  I don't think that's too 
> much to ask.  I'd liken it to the requirement that everyone who drives 
> must pass a drivers test and must have insurance.  We don't let people 
> learn to drive by "trial and error" and even Microsoft has made it clear 
> since XP that anti-virus is not optional along with providing a built-in 
> firewall.
> 
> I should also point out that zombified computer present a significant 
> risk to their supposed owners.  If someone can control a system as a 
> spambot, they can also install a key logger and cause  a lot of harm 
> through accessing accounts up to and including identity theft.  Everyone 
> who uses their computer for more than just an e-mail client needs to be 
> aware that not properly securing it can mean a huge financial liability.
> 
> Les <hlhowell at pacbell.net> wrote:
> 
> > ... If you are a professional network admin, you get
> > access to other admiins through the usual contacts with your peers, and
> > the companies whose software you run.  However, a home user, who is not
> > doing this professionally, such as I now, even with a degree, and
> > considerable experience, doesn't have the peer connections that you
> > enjoy, nor is there anyone checking our work, and it is a "hobby", done
> > after work for those not retired, all of which means that learning the
> > full garmet of security required is not within the scope of their (my)
> > use.
> I'm a currently unemployed (I call it "trial retirement") geek.  I put 
> together my own network as a hobby and to learn networking.  I am 
> constantly amazed at how useful Google is for finding all of the arcane 
> things that people need to know in order to do more than just have a 
> client connection.  The trick is to start paranoid and only open things 
> up once you're sure that you know what you're doing.  This list is also 
> invaluable for that although you will probably get ten different (and 
> all correct) answers for any questions you ask.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave
> 

But I want to use the darn thing, not babysit it.  That is why I left
Windows.  As to googling things, you don't always find the answer there
either.  For instance I was just looking up how to change ports in
Evolution.  Good luck on that apparently. (I'll ask that question in
another thread, so don't respond to it here.)

    As to the car analogy, do you NEVER speed, never tailgate, always
signal lane changes or turns?  Yet you passed a drivers test that asked
you those specific things.  Do you follow a bicycle, or force him to
avoid you?  Do you pass a bicycle without changing lanes?  These are all
requirements in most states for driving.  Do you know the stopping
distance at 60mph or 80mph?  Are you safe at any speed.  I ride a
motorcycle.  I can tell you horror storys about driving that you would
not believe.  Do you ever drive after two or three beers?  When is the
last time you checked all the lights on your car?  Do all your brake
lights, turn signals, headlamps, emergency blinkers, parking lights,
backup lights, and interior lights work right now?  Are you polite and
courteous to other drivers or do you curse them, tail gate to prevent a
lane change, or have other aggressive driving behaviors?

    None of us is 100% all the time.  We call that being human.  For a
good example, see my business going on about C, where I mixed up various
languages, and I am considered by many people a very good programmer.
We all screw up.  Computers make it less obvious what we did and more
obvious that we did it.

Regards,
Les H

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/attachments/20070529/91733097/attachment-0002.html