F8(1) vs multimedia production(0)

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 13 August 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
>On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Gene Heskett 
<gene.heskett at verizon.net>wrote:
>> Can gstreamer do what an offshore ffmpeg can?
>
>ffmpeg can do a lot that is not directly tied to a specific encumbered
>encoding. All libraries end up decoding the encumbered formats and using
>some sort of internal representation of the stream that is useful to work
>with as a raw data source.  Video editting does not strictly require
>encumbered crap.  If we had the video editting application such as kino in
>the distro...we could edit raw dv from camcorders into quite usable compress
>theora videos.
>
>Sadly kino relies on ffmpg to do this. So I could rip out the encumbered
>bits from ffmpeg, include that as a package..and then package kino to use
>it. In fact I personally have such a package, but I haven't submitted any of
>it for inclusion..because including that sort of thing would mean that the
>users of that package could not add support for other codecs to use with
>kino. They'd be stuck with my crippled ffmpeg and thus a crippled kino.  And
>it would be marginally harder for them to install a fully functional kino
>once my package was available. 3rd party repos which provide a fully
>functional ffmpeg and kino would have to bend over backwards to work around
>my 'crippled' ffmpeg stack. And as much as I want to make useful video
>production tools available in distro..I don't want to make work harder for
>the maintainers and users of those 3rd party repsotiories.
>
>All of this because ffmpeg doesn't deal with plugin technology at any level.
>Unlike xine... unlike gstreamer.
>
>> I think not, regardless of how
>> much better it can handle plugins, you would still be removing those bits
>
>infinitely better support...since ffmpeg has no support at all for runtime
>detection of codec support.  c'mon even windows media player's framework
>lets you add codec support as plugins doesn't it?
>
>> that actually make it work.  Also, gstreamer, which might be somebodies
>> pet for all I know, seems to do weird things that require a tap on the
>> reset button here, so AFAIAC, its not ready for prime time either.
>>
>> Whats a 'pitivi'?
>
>I suggest you make an effort to read up on gstreamer and the applications
>which are attempting to make use of it.  gst is already pretty deeply
>integrated into the default gnome application stack. You are probably making
>use of the framework without knowing it already.
>
>If you want to work on a technical solution towards better video production
>tools in Fedora, gstreamer's pretty much the only framework that's flexible
>enough to build on with out running directly into legal issues to get
>anything in at all.
>
>Pitivi is a simple non-linear editor that is in distro right now, but it
>needs some love.  There are several of music sequencing applications based
>on gst, and there are some reasonably good video playback applictions out
>there, even video streaming and capturing apps... but the one thing that is
>really unexplored is video editing.
>
>If all you want to do is get mad and shake your first in the air and march
>around in a little circle beating your chest at the fact that we are
>cautious about legal issues..including patently unreasonable things..like
>software patents...I guess I can't stop you..but you should know...you look
>really funny doing it... and its not helpful.
>
I wasn't trying to be funny, Jef.  In fact, since I've got sugar and am 
several years the far side of 70 already, only a masochist would enjoy 
watching that.  But I am a great believer in making things work the way I 
want them to work, and going to an offshore distro seems to me to be the most 
efficient use of my remaining time.  I need it to work now, not at some point 
in an indefinitely measured future.  That's all that has ever been promised, 
and there have been 2 or 3 multimedia editors marched in as being the current 
version of kitten britches since FC2 & a kino that worked, and each has 
fallen by the wayside.  It seems the coders can come up with a pretty face & 
nothing behind it, or difficult to use cli tools, and never the twain shall 
meet under US law.

>You want to be helpful? Work towards getting a mature video editting app on
>this list:
>http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/apps/
>
>If we can get that done, that would go a long way.

My days of giving code a bunch of much needed TLC were 15 years ago, and about 
56 bits narrower a data bus.  Now I play canary in a coal mine by running the 
last Linus blessed rc kernel, 2.6.27-rc3 ATM.
>-jef

Nah. I've used kino before.  The button has been pushed, and Ubuntu 8.04 is 
coming in via ktorrent right now.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Hope is a waking dream.
		-- Aristotle