Improving the list climate [was Re: Fwd: Fedora Weekly News 228]

Michael Schwendt mschwendt at
Sat Jun 5 06:21:34 UTC 2010

On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 00:17:04 -0400, Máirín wrote:

> On Thu, 2010-06-03 at 21:01 -0700, Alan Evans wrote:
> > 2010/6/3 Máirín Duffy:
> > > Do we want new users to witness this kind of behavior? They are directed
> > > towards this list right now via a number of different pointers. My team
> > > is planning to redesign the Fedora website for Fedora 14, and I'm not
> > > sure we can in good conscience continue to point new users to this list
> > 
> > Let me get this straight: You remove relevant, helpful links from one
> > Fedora site page and the user community explodes with queries,
> > comments, and complaints about the omission. Now your response to this
> > feedback is to suggest that *more* relevant, helpful links be removed
> > from another page?
> > 
> > I would laugh, but I think that you're serious.
> I don't want to point people new to Fedora to a list with attitudes like
> this and to come away with the notion that kind of treatment of people -
> the dripping sarcasm, personal attacks, trolling - is representative of
> Fedora. It's not. Maybe it's representative of this list (I haven't been
> following it long enough to know for sure) but it is most certainly NOT
> how things are done in Fedora.
> So yes, a link to list this may not actually be a relevant and helpful
> link for new users. There is some good rationale above as to why I
> believe this, and unfortunately the tone of your response provides
> further support.

Unfortunately, that's a message that does exactly the opposite of improving
the climate.

> > Not all of the feedback from this list was unconstructive. Not all of
> > the responses were abusive or confrontational. But after reviewing the
> > thread in question, I have to say that *many* of your responses were
> > confrontational and many were, frankly, condescending. It didn't seem
> > to matter whether the person you were replying to was trying to be
> > constructive or snarky; your responses seemed designed to pour more
> > fuel on the fire almost every time.
> This is an unfair personal attack, and is not constructive especially
> given the topic of the thread. Please let's talk about making things
> better, and stop pointing fingers and making accusations.

Cool down. Alan has made some valid points. IMO.

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