Sorbet on Fedora's future

[Michael Miles]

On 03/20/2010 10:05 AM, Craig White wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-03-20 at 01:30 -0400, Marcel Rieux wrote:
>
>    
>> So, if there was a place where I could report those bugs without
>> registering to 10,000 different bugzillas and dealing with
>> don't-give-a-shit geeks, I certainly would fill them and would be more
>> than interested in trying packages in update-testing to see if the fix
>> works. But I'm certainly not interested in enabling update-testing
>> just to see if new stuff i don't need works, and possibly break my
>> system.
>>      
> ----
> the reality is that packagers do not always have the time and
> inclination to read lists such as this and the bug reporting systems
> have gotten us this far so it's clearly working. If you choose not to
> participate, then don't. I suspect that if your bug reports are as
> unfocused as your rants, they are likely to be disregarded anyway.
> ----
>    
>> If my problems do not concern Fedora/Red Hat developers directly, they
>> can address the bug to software developers upstream. If bugs take
>> years to be fixed, maybe they can suggest another software... or
>> desktop environment be used by default on Fedora. You know, Fedora/Red
>> Hat certainly has the clout to wake up developers. OTOH, if Red Hat
>> relies on disgruntled users to fill reports on bugs that never get
>> fixed, users won't be the only ones to suffer.
>>      
> ----
> 1 - your message doesn't get through to them. Bug reporting gets
> through.
> 2 - read this...
>      http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-software/201003/msg00081.html
>      you should realize that it's not just Fedora but rather that all of
> the various distributions only have so much manpower to package software
> from upstream, let alone write patches/make changes. You have the source
> code and you can suggest patches which would greatly accelerate the
> process of getting things fixed but of course that requires requisite
> knowledge of programming, etc. Standing on a soap box and shouting this
> pretty much comes off as noise from the peanut gallery and suggests that
> the you don't really have a clue on what is actually involved.
> ----
>    
>> What I wrote here might be in part ill founded. When you're not a
>> developer, you can't comment with insight. It's an outsider's view,
>> but a very clear fact remains: whether it's only a rant or a
>> fullfledged case study, users must be allowed to express their POV
>> freely and it should be taken into consideration.
>>      
> ----
> who is it that is supposed to take your POV into consideration? People
> who don't read this list?
> ----
>    
>> Chasing users away with "Why don't you fill (no-use) bug reports?" or
>> "You don't like it? The code is there, modify it!", the way it is
>> typically done on Debian and Slackware groups, leads to disaster.
>>      
> ----
> yeah, it's the same kind of disaster that got Linux this far and got you
> a complete OS to install for no cost at all. I can see why you think it
> is a disaster.
> ----
>    
>> If flame wars wouldn't have been so common in the community, if user
>> needs had been better taken care of, Debian could have achieved what
>> Mark Shuttlewort did, which is build a community, the largest user
>> base in the Linux world. So that, if you speak to Windows users
>> contemplating a move to Linux, the first distro that comes to their
>> mind is Ubuntu. That's because it's pretty much the only distribution
>> the generalist press talks about.
>>      
> ----
> Ubuntu has tried to carve out the Desktop as its primary user base.
> Honestly, I don't know why you aren't using Ubuntu instead of Fedora.
> ----
>    
>> Now, Shuttlweworth is planning to offer an iTune look-alike service
>> for his users. He's going to bring some money in to pay his
>> developers. It's not the financial clout that Google gives to
>> ChromeOS, but it's a move in the right direction.
>>      
> ----
> Maemo and ChromeOS are niche market products and not germane to
> comparison to a complete distribution.
> ----
>    
>> Apple, which is certainly far from showing an open-source attitude(1),
>> makes billions with BSD-based OS X using "repackaged" standard
>> no-real-specs-available(2) hardware and still gains market share over
>> Microsoft.
>>      
> ----
> I have personal feelings on this...
> - Apple provides an inferior product if you care about installing open
> source packages, UNIX or Linux compatibility.
> - Apple is all about vendor lock-in much like Microsoft
> - Apple donates little to the open source community
> ----
>    
>> At 19 years old. Linux is certainly not a new kid on the block
>> anymore. How come, even with Ubuntu, it is still howering at around 1%
>> of the market share? How come all the brawlers who invade Linux
>> groups/forums/lists are still allowed to bash new users pretending
>> that market share is not important in order to be accepted in
>> standards definition, that they'll still be surfing the net with Lynx
>> ten years from now?
>>      
> ----
> Most of the people I know using Linux are unconcerned about market
> share. They use it because it works and it's cost effective. Sheep are
> still sheep. If your yardstick only measures Linux value based upon
> market share, then I'm afraid that it will come up short for many years
> to come.
> ----
>    
>> When, I installed the NVIDIA drivers, I went, first place, to
>> fedorafaq.org. Since Fedora couldn't provide instructions on
>> installing proprietary drivers, it seemed like an appropriate place.
>> But the instructions didn't work. It took some time before I got to
>> rpmfusion, the provider of the kmod package. Still, though I asked the
>> maintainer to correct his instructions, the Fedorafaq page is still
>> unchanged.
>>      
> ----
> take it up with 'FedoraFAQ' and rpmfusion people. They do take feedback.
> Their web sites are not operated by Fedora
> ----
>    
>> IMO, Fedora releases will have to become much more stable and urgency
>> to get more market share will have to be established as a clear
>> priority. Very F-A-S-T. The Stable release update vision should be
>> followed "à la lettre".
>>      
> ----
> If Fedora doesn't suit your needs there are a lot of other Linux
> distributions available and one of the others might be more to your
> liking.
>
> Craig
>    


I just came from Win 7 ultimate x64 and tested all the Linux Distros.
Interger speed was average with win 7 when I tested ubuntu, Debian, 
Opensuse and the only one that gave me a huge increase in interger mips 
was Fedora 12

I could be wrong and benchies from one platform to another could be out 
but ubuntu gave me a interger speed of 9999 mips/core, win 7 7566 
mips/core Debian 8560 mips / core.... Fedora 15600 mips/core

It was also the only package where I actually had success in Nvidia 
Drivers installing correctly.

As far as I am concerned Fedora is it and I will never change from now on.

I just hope the next kernel update and nvidia drivers are compatible as 
nouveau does not enable cuda device.

Cuda support with nouveau is needed

mmamiga6
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