Installing F14 Beta

[JD]

  On 10/15/2010 07:24 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
>    On 10/15/10 3:48 PM, JD wrote:
>>     On 10/15/2010 11:23 AM, James McKenzie wrote:
>>>      On 10/15/10 10:52 AM, Terry Polzin wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 13:15 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>>>>> On 10/14/10 5:10 PM, Tom H wrote:
>>>>>> The list info on
>>>>>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users  states that
>>>>>> "this list provides community assistance, encouragement, and advice
>>>>>> for Fedora users" without specifying a release version, however the
>>>>>> developers would probably appreciate knowing about an F14 problem
>>>>>> throughhttp://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test  (for example).
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>> IMHO F14 is not a Fedora version, given that it hasn't been released
>>>>> yet. Same with Rawhide.
>>>>>
>>>>> poc
>>>> There IS a fedora test list.
>>> True, for both POC and you.  However, guys coming down on someone like
>>> they are a nail and you are a hammer is not very good for FC public
>>> relations and sometimes does not get the 'job done.'
>>>
>>> It just might be good to know what did not work with the beta when the
>>> GA comes down and we experience the same problem in this list.  Such
>>> information should not be placed into a vacuum or list that gets wiped
>>> for each FC 'version'.
>>>
>>> And Rawhide is a Fedora 'version' as is 14, but they have their own list
>>> for now and brokenness and other issues SHOULD go to them.
>>>
>>> James McKenzie
>>>
>> James, you can't play the peacemaker and be on the side
>> that is clearly WRONG!!!
> Maybe in your eyes, but there is the golden rule of use of mailing
> lists:  Post only that is pertinent to the appropriate mailing list.  If
> there is a mailing list for a particular function, that is where the
> post SHOULD go.  Just because the Fedora User mailing list looks like a
> garbage can does not mean it should be.  If there is a test version
> question, that is where the question should go.  It has been stated that
> the Fedora developers do not lurk in this list and problems reported
> here may or may not be corrected.  This is what I call a disservice to
> those who loaded up a test version to look at and report problems.
>> Read  my posts immediately prior to this one!!
> I did.
>> I have read all the guidelines of the list. If anything, they
>> support and backup my statements.
>> This is a general users list for anything "fedora"
>> REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE
>> DEDICATED LISTS OR FORUMS FOR THAT SPECIFIC
>> FEDORA ISSUE.
>> As I stated:  for just about every issue posted here,
>> there is a dedicated list or form. Are you going to tell
>> every user to stop posting on this list and go to that
>> dedicated list or forum?
> No, I'm not.  The best situation that I can show of off-topic but yet
> on-topic postings is the question on Apache.  This really needs to be
> addressed in the Apache forums, but I did not jump on this person's
> question and state that they had 'posted an off-topic message and to
> take this elsewhere.'
>
>> If this were an actual rule of this list, this list would be
>> empty!
>>
> Not necessarily.  Again, we don't want this list to be a 'failure to
> communicate' which is a real poor reflection on this project.  Again, if
> the problem involves problems with a test version, that is where the
> question should go.  The Fedora developers don't read this list (as far
> as anyone here has stated, I would love to be incorrect in this.)
>
> The purpose of this list is for user support by other users and
> sometimes, RedHat folks.  Most of the answers I see here are from people
> like you, a user and me, a user.  We really cannot help folks fix
> serious brokenness in a test build, and that is not what we are here
> for.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  The same applies for RawHide, the high
> rate of change version of Fedora.  There are other lists for some of the
> programs that are supplied by the Fedora project, but if it has to do
> with Fedora it is allowed here.  Again the emphasis is that users will
> receive general help in most cases.  There have been threads that
> definitely were not Fedora oriented, but they were very lively and gave
> out very good and helpful information.
>
> Posting messages relating to test versions are not usually tracked in a
> general user forum/mailing list.  This causes problems when there are
> problems that this forum cannot answer.
>
> One thing that I'm not going to do, that others have done is jump on
> folks that post here about FC 14 or Rawhide.  I might give them a gentle
> reminder that the assistance they will receive here will not be as high
> quality nor have the authority of people in the other lists and then
> direct them to the appropriate list where they should receive better
> assistance.  I will state again "You can draw more 'bees' with honey
> than you ever can with vinegar" is a statement that I've found to work
> time and time again.  We don't need to crush folks because they posted
> here, but rather be gentle with them.  Can we ALL do this?  Yes, I think
> we can and more importantly, should.
>
> James McKenzie
>
Yeah yeah yeah...

Find yourself something better to do!