Installer inadequacies
Eddie G. O'Connor Jr.
eoconnor25 at gmail.com
Mon Jan 21 01:07:57 UTC 2013
On 01/18/2013 01:26 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> David A. De Graaf wrote:
>> Fedora 18.
>>
>> What a disaster! What were they thinking when they threw away a
>> perfectly good installer and inflicted this new User Interface on us?
>> Whoever decided to reinvent disk partitioning and embed it in this
>> installer should be taken out to the woodshed and whupped. Has
>> everyone forgotten the dictum that each program should do one thing
>> and do it well? Reinventing disk partitioning here is a total disaster.
>> It isn't nearly as good as fdisk, gparted and a host of other perfectly
>> usable programs.
>>
> After reading this, and the first reply to it, I will cease trying to
> install fc18 on my laptop. "New for the sake of being different" is a
> way of life in Fedora, and I find that the need to have the latest is
> the only objective being given value, while no thought is being given
> to preserving the value of experience gained by current users. I
> suspect that most users of any new release are already users of some
> previous release, why change to some new way of doing things which is
> (a) less functional, (b) offers benefit only or mostly to new
> installations, and (c) appears to lack even a hint of convenience to
> those who have been installing Fedora (and before that Redhat) for
> decades.
>
>> I have been unable to use my existing partitions as I wish.
>
> The chorus sings "Amen!!"
>
>> I have a pretty simple laptop configuration:
>> /dev/sda1 /boot .5 GB
>> /dev/sda2 Windows 3.7 GB
>> /dev/sda3 extended
>> /dev/sda5 / 20. GB encrypted
>> /dev/sda6 /f16 20. GB encrypted
>> /dev/sda7 /home 109. GB encrypted
>> /dev/sda8 swap 1.5 GB encrypted
>>
>> Note that /boot is not encrypted but all the other Linux partitions
>> are. There are two root partitions that I use in a ping-pong fashion
>> to hold the latest and prior Fedora systems. The boot menu allows
>> either kernel to be booted, which used to be easy with grub, but has
>> become nightmarishly difficult with grub2. Either kernel uses the
>> same /home and swap.
>>
> My setup exactly.
>
>> Installing F18, I intended to switch /dev/sda6 to /, and save
>> /dev/sda5 as /f17. But the installer wouldn't allow it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I will repeat here the setup and selection process to document the
>> failures.
>>
> At this point, I'll stop saying "Me, too" and just say that this is
> the unfriendliest and least intuitive partitioning setup I have ever
> used, thinking that putting a GUI on an ill-designed process makes it
> somehow easy to use is a perfect example of "lipstick on a pig" thinking.
>>
>> When I entered the Storage/Installation Destination (with no disks
>> selected) I selected the sole disk available for installation, an ATA
>> WDC WD1600BEVE-1, and a big blue area became highlighted.
>> I checked the box saying "Encrypt my data, I'll set a passphrase
>> later.". Then clicked on "Full disk summary and options...".
>> This showed a box listing the one and only disk, and informed me that
>> of the 152.62 GB capacity, only 1.89 MB was free space. That was
>> correct; the disk was fully partitioned and previously allocated to
>> appropriate uses. I clicked on "Set as Boot Device" just to be sure...
>> then Close.
>>
>> There was nothing left to click on except Continue, so I Continued.
>>
>> A warning presented: I needed 3.36 GB to install Fedora but there's
>> only 276 MB free. But there's 152.62 GB Space in selected disks
>> reclaimable by deleting (!) partitions.
>>
>> Well thats nice, but I don't want to delete any partitions.
>> My existing partitions are fine; I just want to reuse one of them!
>> So now what?
>>
>> There are three checkable boxes:
>> Cancel & add more disks (Not likely; it's a laptop)
>> Modify software selection (I haven't even selected any yet)
>> Reclaim space (Not appealing, but its all that's
>> left)
>> But I'll check the box: "I don't need help; let me customize disk
>> partitioning.". That sounds like exactly what I want.
>>
>> I'm asked to enter a passphrase for my encrypted disks. (I'd better
>> type this carefully, to match what's already in use.)
>>
>> I'm now presented with a list of existing filesystems that I can
>> remove to free up space. However, they are not identified either by
>> partition name (/dev/sda1) or current role (/boot). I have two
>> identically sized root partitions, /dev/sda5 and /dev/sda6. One
>> contains
>> the old F16 that I want to discard; the other F17 that I want to keep.
>> Should I guess? 50:50 chance? Right? I have to guess.
>>
>> I highlight one and mark it for deletion. Then click "Reclaim space".
>>
>> (BTW, I have no way to know exactly when this deletion will occur.
>> I'm repeating this exercise to record this disastrous experience,
>> intending
>> to stop just before committing the changes. I'll be really pissed if
>> I lose my mostly completed new F18 installation.)
>>
>> Surprise! I'm popped back to the main menu. The "Installation
>> Destination" item has no warning icon, so the installer seems perfectly
>> happy with the 20 GB space I've just freed up. But it has never
>> bothered to ask me which other partitions are to be used for /boot,
>> /home, swap, or the old /f17. Apparently, it has decided, in its
>> wisdom, to put the whole F18 installation into that 20 GB partition.
>>
>> Unbelievable!
>>
>> I can't allow that. So, back to the main menu, where I notice it says
>> "Use automatic partitioning", or the like.
>>
>> I recall my previous encounter with this "logic tree" was very
>> different.
>> Perhaps I had chosen some sort of manual partitioning. Let's try
>> that.
>>
>> Oh, the machine's frozen up and is unresponsive. CTL-ALT-DEL to start
>> over... Didn't work. CTL-ALT-F2 gives a prompt, then 'reboot'.
>>
>>
>> Ok, 2nd try. (Actually, 5th try)
>> This time, I'll do Software Selection first, and pick Xfce and its
>> add-ons (to retain my sanity). OK. That's done.
>>
>> Now, back to Installation Destination.
>> Pick the sole ATA disk, select Encrypt my data, view the "Full disk
>> summary", and set it as the Boot Device. Continue.
>>
>> Warning: Not enough space. This time, check "I don't need help,
>> let me customize disk partitioning". Click "Reclaim Space".
>>
>> Ah, now I see the Manual Partitioning page that I'd seen before.
>> In the left panel is
>> New Fedora 18 Installation
>> Unknown
>> Click on Unknown to expand it, and I see my 6 existing partitions,
>> properly labeled as sda1,... sda8, with the four Linux partitions
>> marked Encrypted. The sda1 is highlighted and on the right side are
>> boxes for Name: Mount Point: and Label: so I fill them in:
>> Name: sda1
>> Mount Point: /boot
>> Label: (blank) Desired Capacity (MB): 502
>> I expand "Customize", which offers the opportunity to Reformat,
>> but I don't want to do that, so I click "Apply Changes".
>>
>> Nothing seems to happen, but if I expand "New Fedora 18 Installation"
>> I see there's now something called Boot listed there.
>>
>> The next partition to be assigned is sda5, which is to be mounted
>> at /f17. It contains the prior version of Fedora. It is encrypted,
>> so I supply the passphrase. Instantly, sda5 disappears from Unknown,
>> and a new item appears in the left panel: "Fedora Linux 17 for i686"
>> That is not at all what I wanted. There is no opportunity to specify
>> it as a mountpoint, /f17, for the new installation. The /boot partition
>> is now assigned to both the New Installation and the Fedora 17 item.
>>
>> The next partition remaining in Unknown is sda6, which is to be
>> formatted
>> and used as / for the New Fedora 18 Installation. With the
>> encryption key
>> supplied, it also flys away from the Unknown group. It does not appear
>> in "New Fedora 18 Installation", but creates yet another new, third
>> item,
>> "Fedora Linux 18 for i686". It is Fedora 18 because I had just
>> previously
>> installed F18 there. In the original attempt, this partition held F17,
>> so the installer wanted to create an instance called Fedora 17.
>>
>> It is apparent that the manual partitioning scheme looks inside the
>> filesystem and decides, on its own, what will be done with it.
>>
>> It has no business doing that.
>>
>> The assignment of each and every partition must be specified by the
>> user. Also, whether to format a partition or not must be chosen by
>> the user, not by the installer. No chance was given to format the
>> partition for /. Instead it was assigned to another instance based
>> on its
>> content, which was intended to be erased.
>>
>> I have no idea what it means to have three different items listed in
>> the lefthand panel. If I continue with "Finish Partitioning", what
>> can possibly happen? In my view, partitioning is a monolithic
>> operation. It tells how all the partitions that exist are to be used.
>> If some remain unused, that's fine.
>>
>> Above all, the installer has absolutely no role in choosing how, or if,
>> some partitions are to be assigned. If I want to hang the old root
>> filesystem at the mountpoint /f17, that's my business.
>>
>> I have two more partitions to assign: /home and swap, but it is
>> pointless to continue. Based on previous experiments, they would
>> likely be assigned to one of the wrong "instances", with me powerless
>> to alter the error.
>>
>>
>> In short, I found it utterly impossible to achieve my simple intention
>> of installing F18 / in the place previously used by F16 /, mounting the
>> old F17 / as /f17, and using the existing /boot (unencrypted), /home,
>> and swap partitions with the new F18 /.
>>
>> This new F18 User Interface installer is a complete disaster.
>> It is incapable of doing the most elementary partitioning and is too
>> "smart" for its own good.
>> It should never have been let out of its cage.
>>
>>
>> I did manage to install F18 by extraordinary effort.
>> Using a separate Live F17 Xfce USB stick, I cleared the old F16 root
>> partition:
>> mkfs.ext4 -L f18 /dev/sda6
>>
>> With a content-free partition, the installer finally did allow its use
>> in a "New Fedora 18 Installation". The /boot, /home and swap partitions
>> were also associated. It remained impossible to have the old F17 root
>> mounted as /f17, though. When the new F18 was booted, the encrypted F17
>> root partition was not listed in the /dev/mapper list of filesystems,
>> and a special workaround had to be devised.
>>
>>
>>
>> Workaround
>>
>> Here's how to mount the encrypted old f17 partition:
>> # cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sda5 f17enc
>> Enter passphrase for /dev/sda5: ++++++++++++++++
>> That creates the required entry in /dev/mapper that the installer
>> forgot:
>> # ll /dev/mapper
>> total 0
>> crw------- 1 root root 10, 236 Jan 16 19:33 control
>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Jan 17 11:38 f17enc -> ../dm-3
>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Jan 16 19:33
>> luks-0fc2a8e0-9d71-4af7-853e-afb3c89794e2 -> ../dm-1
>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Jan 16 19:33
>> luks-9800d5dd-f281-4750-b0cf-42282401ace0 -> ../dm-2
>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Jan 16 19:33
>> luks-dc53437b-7efa-426c-870c-972d96f5f0ca -> ../dm-0
>>
>> It can then be mounted in the usual way:
>> # mount /dev/mapper/f17enc /f17
>>
>> I don't know yet how to accomplish this automatically on a reboot.
>>
>>
>
>
WOW!......I think I will wait for the next iteration of Fedora (19....or
maybe even 20!) before upgrading! I realize that the latest and greatest
are fun to play with, but I don't just "play" with this machine...I also
WORK with it and hence I cannot afford to have anything untoward or
unseemly happen to the disk that holds my documents and such, (I also
realize a backup would preserve my setup now as it is safely and without
harm, and I /_do_/ backup my drive...religiously!) But I just don't
think I want to go through the headache of having to scour mailing lists
or forums just to have my sound return....or to be able to do something
that I am able to do now with no problems....I'm sure F19 will come with
it's OWN set of issues, but at least by then I'll have gotten ahold of
some newer hardware that will be memory maxed...along with a bigger
HD...(right now I'm pretty much riding along with a 320GB SATA HD!) I
plan on getting a hold of something that will accomodate 8GB of
memory...and I'm thinking I might try for a 1TB drive...but if that's
not feasible I will get a 500GB and ride that along until the next
version comes out as well. As for right now, I have way too much riding
on this laptop to just go and fudge things up right now....so patience
will prevail...I MIGHT get F18 after another 5 months....because I'm
sure by then they'll have worked out a lot of the kinks...and handled as
many bugs as possible!.....but for right now..I think its pretty much a
done deal...I'm "frozen" at F17 until 19 comes out!
EGO II
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