what has 'yum update' done?

[Reindl Harald]

Am 07.07.2013 19:21, schrieb lee:
> Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net> writes:
> 
>> Am 07.07.2013 17:53, schrieb lee:
>>> If Fedora cannot be updated without major problems, it's
>>> not useable.
>>
>> if you follow this guides *strictly* and willing to learn to deal
>> wtih "package-cleanup --leaves | --problems | --orphans and
>> to understand how your OS basically works you are fine
>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum
> 
> When you look at the wiki, they are recommending to use fedup for
> upgrades, and they are saying "Upgrading directly from one release to
> the next using yum is not explicitly tested by Fedora QA"[1] and it
> might work only by chance because of "packaging guidelines providing
> detailed information on maintaining upgradability"[1].  They are even
> saying that they don't know why it might work or not and are guessing
> that it is "probably due to"[1] the packaging guidelines.

yes

> Considering that Fedora does not have a working (and tested and
> supported) upgrade method at all, such packaging guidelines seem very
> questionable.  That means you're simply lucky if you manage to upgrade.
> That users are quick to suggest to reinstall instead of trying to
> upgrade seems to support this conclusion.

i do not buy "you're simply lucky" after around 400 dist-upgrades
with yum on workstations and production servers with all sort
of services - i *never* rely on luck, i simply *test* and *prepare*
upgrades after test them carefully on clones with note all needed steps

> So we have three options to upgrade:
> 1.) the recommended fedup which probably doesn't work

so no benefit compared to yum

> 2.) the untested and unsupported way using yum which might work or not

the same for fedup

> 3.) move away from Fedora and install a different distribution

maybe your choice, mine is learn to understand every piece of my system

>> if you want simple fire&forget upgrades and not invest time
>> and energy to learn how the system basically works and what
>> major changes are meaning for you in case of upgrades use
>> CentOS or whatever LTS distribution
> 
> That is a very different issue.  The problem is that there apparently
> isn't a working way to upgrade Fedora

there is - if you know what you are doing

hence i managed dependency problems often enough due upgrades
and that is why i use yum - you can fix problems before upgrade
and even after upgrade before reboot

> Add to that that a simple 'yum update' made a severe mess, not only
> basically putting the system into an unbootable state but also trying to
> upgrade without even indicating that it would try this and without even
> asking me if I wanted that.

there doe sno upgrade happen magically

> Only by examining the configuration of the boot manager I was able to
> boot again.  That was just luck and I could have been left stranded with
> a non-bootable system.

which is all fixable
been there, done that

> The method for upgrading you suggest is not recommended and untested

and you believe a fedup-upgrade 7 weeks after new updates are pushed
out is tested - who has tested it? with what combination of installed
pakcages which may make a big difference in possible conflicts

> It might be a great a way to do it or it might fail.  That doesn't have
> anything to do with learning "how the system basically works and what
> major changes are meaning for" me.

surely, if you know your system well you are able to verify package
consistency and configuration *before* reboot and fix things
if needed after yum-upgrade

> Atm, I'm undecided if I even should try to upgrade or save myself the
> hassle and just move on to another distribution which might be more
> reliable. 

that has nothing to do with "reliable"
Fedora *is* relieable
if not i would not run more than 20 production servers
with it since many years

> I don't want to have problems with updating all the time, and
> so far, Fedora promises to continue to give me these problems

maybe it is not the right distribution *for you*

if all distributions would be perfect for everyone why would we
have more than one?

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