hidden GRUB menu -> Re: Suspension problem last 2 days

[Reindl Harald]

Am 22.09.2013 18:00, schrieb drago01:
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net> wrote:
>> Am 22.09.2013 17:36, schrieb drago01:
>>> On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 3:21 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net> wrote:
>>>> Am 22.09.2013 02:52, schrieb Ed Greshko:
>>>>> On 09/22/13 08:39, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>>>>>> Ed Greshko wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been having a problem on my Thinkpad T61 for the last 2 days.
>>>>>>>> In fact since "yum update" installed kernel-PAE-3.11.1-200.fc19.i686,
>>>>>>>> though that is probably a coincidence.
>>>>>>> Would it be possible to boot into the previous kernel to verify if it is a
>>>>>>> coincidence?
>>>>>> I'm afraid I'm not sure how to do that.
>>>>>> I'd be happy to try if someone could suggest the way.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you boot your system, don't you have a menu to select up to 3 kernels?
>>>>
>>>> and that is why i cried on @devel about the idea to hide the GRUB menu as default
>>>
>>> Err you know that we do *not* hide the grub menu in F19?
>>
>> no - because i do not care about Fedora defaults in many cases for my machines
> 
> You seem to care enough to write mails about it.

yes, becuase i am not that asshole some think and care about others
i wish the future users have the same chance to learn things as i had
in the past

>>> If anything you have just proven that just because the menu is shown
>>> people will not automatically know what the options there mean.
>>
>> no - it is proven that even if it is there it's hard to understand
>> hide it does not make this better
> 
> Showing an option that people do not understand does not solve anything.

then *explain* the menu instead hide it

>>> So can you stop "crying about the idea to hide the GRUB menu as(by)
>>> default" now?
>>
>> no, simply because if it is hard to move the cursor down in a
>> already displayed menu for some users you can be sure that they
>> never have a chance to learn about the existing older kernel
>> by hide it
> 
> You should not have to learn what a kernel is to be able to use your computer

this makes no sense

why do you have to learn it?
because there is a menu giving you options?

does this menu *force* someobody to learn?
how would it be able to demand anything from a user?

> I am pretty sure you disagree here but we should just agree to
> disagree instead of having a useless "discussion".

if Fedora Core would have had the same attitude than today i would
never have switched to Linux completly - this boot option where
people say nobody needs to see it saved my first machine and a lot
of time for me because it did not boot after a kernel update and
so i took the only working thing: a menu at begin

i agree in a perfect world you would not need it
but this perfect world doe snot exist

but you are not in the position than *anybody* else to guarantee
that a kernel update will never have regresions, not now and not
in the future

>> if the affected machine is their only one they also have
>> no chance to ask for help and are lost
>>
>> P.S.:
>> do not give thunderbird a negative karma because some extension
>> is not updated / rebuilt, file a bugreport for the extension!
> 
> OT but no. If an update introduces broken deps it should not be pushed
> until they are resolved.
> Giving negative karma here is common practice

not common, bad practice at least in that case

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 263 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/attachments/20130922/d2144238/attachment-0001.sig>