Better tools needed - Re: Latest systemd news

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 12/01/2014 07:23 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 07:00:39PM -0500, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> I would suggest that the thread is off the rails long time back and not
>> enforcing the list guidelines and keeping the list on topic leads to us,
>> unable to point our own users to the list for help because they have to
>> wade through rants.
> With all due respect, it's very clear to me that systemd is a game changer
> and has invoked very intense and concerned responses from the entire Linux
> community.
>
> It's not sensible to just say "not here".  Fedora is supposed to be a
> testing ground for future Redhat releases; as such, its community is--or
> should be--a valuable "canary" for response from Redhat end users in the
> future.  That there is so much concern about systemd tells me there is a
> problem--whether technical, or perceptual--that should be resolved *here*,
> not in the Redhat release channels.  Resolution here can be used by Redhat
> in their commercial venue.
>
> Again, with all due respect, my suggestion is to convince Fedora users that
> the decision to migrate to systemd is a good idea.  They're your advocates
> and concept testers.  Just telling them to "shut up, out of scope" seems a
> bad idea.

Perhaps at some point we will get better tools for using systemd.  I 
mean compare:

systemctl restart sshd.service

with

service sshd restart

Is there something else to do with sshd other than sshd.service?  I have 
not found it.  Why not:

systemctl restart sshd

The 'd' at the end of the name has always implied service.  This is the 
default mode.  Perhaps there is more, but those that work with 'more' 
will tend to know 'more'.

Then there was good old 'chkconfig' that produced a nice tablular report 
of services that can be controlled.  I have yet to find anything close 
to this with systemd.

Perhaps much of the complaining and doom and gloom is that systemV was 
'easy' to work with where as systemd is presented as too rich of an 
environment to interact with.