Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I, "Why?")

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 03/24/2014 04:15 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
> On 24 March 2014 15:02, Ralf Corsepius <rc040203 at freenet.de> wrote:
>> On 03/24/2014 03:12 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>>
>>> On 24 March 2014 12:45, lee <lee at yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> /usr belongs on it`s own partition.  And last time I looked, it would
>>>> not be compliant with the FHS not to have what is needed in /bin and
>>>> /sbin but to use symlinks instead.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that's a very 1980s, or early-1990s, way of looking at it.
>>
>> C'mon, feeling something is oldfashioned is hardly an answer.
>
> Well, actually, sometimes, yes, it is. Same as the decision to drop
> support for i386 from the kernel, or the fact that no installers
> default to ext2 any more.

These aren't old-fashioned, these are technically out-dated. Makes a 
huge difference!

>> Having been able to have /usr on a separate partition was a valuable
>> feature, which now has gone lost. IMNSHO, ruined by naive, inexperienced
>> kids (to use the same tone as you did), who were overwhelmed by the
>> additional complexity supporting this feature had required.
>
> I am not saying you're wrong, merely that I personally haven't seen a
> use or need for it since about 1989 and I found the reasoning for its
> collapse and merger to be sound.
The fact you haven't encountered it doesn't mean there are no use cases.

Just think about non-desktop HW (e.g. phones, tablets, routers, 
switches, NASes), which usually are equipped with different types of 
memory, being used for different purposes ("Linux as firmware").

>> Wrong. You are forgetting about systems booting from SD-Cards, USB-sticks
>> and other forms of non-volatile memory.
>
> Is Fedora a suitable OS for such hardware?

Definitely. Such setups are not uncommon on servers and are even sold by 
big brands. e.g. HP.

E.g. the HP ProLiant N36/40/54L - These are equipped with a built-in 
usb-2 socket, designated to take an USB-stick to boot the OS from.

Similar setups also aren't uncommon on HTPCs, NAS-boxes and similar 
boxes where "non-data partition"-filesystem performance is not of much 
importance.

>> Wrong. Most servers typically are headless, and if they have a graphic
>> card-build-in, it's usually inaccessible or unused.
>
> I am actually an IT professional - no, honestly, really I am - and
> every single rackmount server I've used in the last few years still
> has an SVGA port on it.
But is it used, is it really accessed? I guess no.

Also think about NASes or boxes being used as routers. No need for 
graphics on them.

>> Right, there is no strong necessity, nevertheless having these still would
>> make sense.
>
> There was an argument; it was decided not. I wasn't involved. I happen
> to agree, but I can't change it, so there's no point telling me! :¬)
>
>> I disagree.
>
> Yeah, I guessed. :¬)
>
>> IMNSHO, UsrMove was a prominent epic fail in the long serious
>> faulty decisions Fedora's leadership has committed.
>
> We-eeeelll... I am not sure that I could overall disagree with the
> general thrust of your argument there. :¬)

No need to do so. RH has implemented facts which have rendered this 
discussion moot. IMO, some hidden cabal at RH had decided to pick the 
ancient (> 20 years old) idea to abandon separate partions for /usr and 
/ and to sell it as "revolutionary novelty", instead of shooting it down 
such proposals as "Windows way of thinking", as it has been done for 20 
years before :)


Ralf