Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I, "Why?")

[Chris Murphy]

On Mar 24, 2014, at 9:57 AM, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 24 March 2014 15:51, Chris Murphy <lists at colorremedies.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Right, so in your view ten years of install failures to baremetal is an intentional feature?
> 
> And again with the challenging and hostility.

No, it's just a question. I'm trying to cut through the weeds to find out what I'm dealing with, with the ultimate goal of finding out why you're having difficulty installing Fedora.


> I have not tried every single release; I tend to do distro roundups
> maybe every 3-5 years.

"To be brutally honest, even with commercial live-deployment Unix experience going back to 1989, I have /never/ got any release of Fedora to successfully install on real hardware. I find the installer that bad, and it's been getting worse, not better."

"As I have said previously, I have /never/ successfully installed Fedora on actual hardware since v1.0 shipped in, what was it, 2003?"

Based on what you've said, in particular the use of "any release", a reasonable person can conclude you've tried them all. In that context, don't you think that 20 failures to install seems pretty nutty?

So now that the context is clearly rather different, it make slightly more sense.

> 
> The particular problem with F20 is one I've never seen before, in
> Fedora or in any other OS ever.

I understand that you're not familiar with some of Fedora's rough edges, the fact the installer code is very new as a result of a ground up rewrite just a year ago, and by signing up for Fedora you are indirectly signing up to be a tester to some degree.


>> How did you find out about the list and how did you sign up for it? Doing several Google searches for Fedora user lists, the top most result is this page which makes it abundantly clear there are many Fedora lists.
>> 
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo
> 
> Uhuh. And from this I am meant to *just know* by my powerful psychic
> powers who reads it or not, am I?

Am I wearing clown shoes? 

No, by inference.


> 
>> Oh so that's a reason to not even try?
> 
> Actually, yeah.

And that is why you fail to install Fedora. At this point it's every bit as much user failure as it is installer failure in my opinion.


> 
>> As I have said, you can document it. I've told you where to find the logs, and more than one way to make them available. Your lack of curiosity and active resistance to finding out the cause of these install failures is suspicious.
> 
> No, I think *you're* suspicious, and that is a rather different thing.

I am suspicious why someone would devote this many emails, ostensibly asking for help, while being so magnificently circumspect when it comes to actually being helped.

When it comes to providing the most basic information to help solve this problem, you resist it. What do you want? Do you want to get Fedora to install on real hardware or not? Or do you just want to gripe about the installer for another 25 emails?


Chris Murphy