Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I,?“Why?”)

[Bill Davidsen]

Chris Murphy wrote:
>
> On Mar 25, 2014, at 2:41 AM, lee <lee at yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
>
>> Chris Murphy <lists at colorremedies.com> writes:
>>

> What I ought to do is not QA Manual Partitioning anymore and just let the people who actually think they need or want it do all the testing and bug reporting for it and let it become whatever it becomes.
>
>
>>> Most of the size reporting problems like this are non-contiguous
>>> sections of free space being added up and reported as Available space;
>>> but the request is for a partition size greater than the largest
>>> contiguously available space.
>>
>> Maybe it begins with the installer messing together all the disks in
>> some weird way rather than to treat them separately and just let you
>> partition them the way you want to.  IIRC, there wasn`t even a way to
>> tell it which partition to put where.
>
> It is possible although the UI isn't obvious. You click on the mount point in question, and then there is this 3rd or 4th button under the mount points section that looks like a wrench and screwdriver (?) that you click. And that brings up a dialog where you choose which drive that mount point's underlying partition appears on.
>
You say this as if having to dig down to get at what should be the first thing 
was reasonable. Even you admit it isn't obvious. Why not? It was.
>

>> The makers of the installer can always look into this list and see what
>> ppl say about the installer and learn from that.
>
> No they will not do this, and it's inappropriate to even suggest it. That you don't get that simply means you're ignorant of how the process works.
>
The process does not include listening to users.

>>   Bug reports are not
>> suited for this, and complaining that ppl don`t make enough of them
>> doesn`t get you anywhere.
>
> Filing a bug report is the process. That's it. It works this way for everything: gnome, kde, and even commercial projects do it this way. They do not have developers hanging out in user forums ever. Sometimes QA people hang out in user forums.
>
So how will filing a bug report help, when the issue isn't that it fails to 
perform as intended, but that the intended UI is, by design,in-obvious and hard 
to use?

> This is how I know your problem isn't really serious, because it's so unimportant to you, you won't lift a finger to contribute to any improvement. Why should I help you since you won't even help yourself?
>
>
>
>> How much attention and fixing do you think that would get?  It`ll
>> probably be closed with WONTFIX, one reason being that what is said here
>> doesn`t refers much more to installers from F17 to F19.

It will be closed with NOTABUG, because it works as intended. Poor design is not 
a bug.

Those two above sentences are as close as memory allows to a direct quote of 
what a developer told me on another matter.
>>
>> Perhaps the installer of F20 has be re-designed from scratch, at least
>> when it comes to partitioning, and now works fine.
>
> The installer is redesigned as of Fedora 18.
>
And therefore a bug report suggesting a rededign (or roll back to the old, easy 
to use,) installer is not happening.
>
>>
>>>> you just do country and keyboard setup --- which is missing in Fedoras
>>>> installer, there was no way to tell it that I have a German keyboard ---
>>>
>>> Fedora 18, 19 and 20 have a keyboard spoke in the installer which is
>>> how you tell it you want to use a German keyboard layout.
>>
>> Whatever they might have, I tried several times (because I had to start
>> over many times because it refused to do the partitioning) to tell the
>> installer of F19 that I have a German keyboard, and there was no way.
>
> OK well I just tried it on Fedora 19 Netinstall  and Fedora 20 Live Desktop and I could easily choose a German keyboard, so I don't know what you're doing wrong. It's right there under Localization in the Keyboard option on the main menu right after choosing language.
>
>>   I
>> don`t even know what you mean by "spoke".  You boot the life system,
>> search for "install" to find the installer, then you get an icon and
>> start the installer, and pretty soon you get stuck with trying to do the
>> partitioning.
>
> Hub = the main menu that comes after language selection. On the hub are "spokes" which are paths for various things like "Time & Date" and "Keyboard" and "Installation Destination".
>
In English we would call that a "menu item"

-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen at tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot