"Default" spin of Fedora

Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler at chello.at
Sun Jun 15 23:46:44 UTC 2008


Máirín Duffy wrote 
(https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2008-June/msg00166.html):
> There is no such thing as a "GNOME LiveCD". The "Desktop Spin" or "Desktop
> LiveCD" is GNOME. 

That's a naming issue which, while I think it is important (i.e. that this 
naming is stupid and biased), is not really relevant to this discussion.


Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote 
(https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2008-June/msg00160.html):
>  1. We have to trust our usability experts, just as they trust us to
> {code,package,document,administrate,etc.}.
[snip]
> 3. Some of our usability experts are in fact GNOME UI folks, so it is
> no surprise if their philosophy matches GNOME.

Don't we have any less biased people we could trust? It's obvious that GNOME 
UI folks have a vested interest in hiding all non-GNOME choices.

>  4. KDE has a chicken-egg problem when it comes to getting wider usage
> in Fedora, one which was improved but not solved by the Core/Extras
> merger and strength of the KDE SIG.

I believe KDE in Fedora has many more users than you seem to believe.

I wonder if we have any reliable usage stats there. I've seen the Mugshot 
stats, but unfortunately they suffer from heavy selection bias because 
Mugshot is closely connected to GNOME. They also do not capture stats for the 
average user, only for the small group of people who use Mugshot.

> Perhaps we need a changing "focus box" to bring such attention to SIG work, 
> etc.

While I think this is a good idea, I also think KDE really doesn't belong to 
such a "focus box" only, but should be presented in the same way GNOME is.

> The simple method we've chosen is to make a choice for the page viewer,
> at the same time making alternatives obviously available.  Compared to
> "all links you might want on one page" and variations there-of, this
> simple method is superior and the one we are proceeding with right now.

As I said right when starting this thread (when I asked whether we want to 
designate a "default" spin of Fedora at all) I consider "all links you might 
want on one page" to be the correct solution.

What I'd keep from Juank's mockup is the added descriptions (though the one 
for the so-called "Desktop Live" is still missing the word "GNOME" in his 
mockup), and I'd simply point the big "download Fedora now" link on the front 
page to get-fedora, not to a particular spin.


Máirín Duffy wrote 
(https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2008-June/msg00161.html):
> Problem is, I go and download Fedora and end up with say KDE and I love it.
> I tell my friend to go and download it, and they end up with GNOME. 

I don't see a problem there. In that hypothetical scenario, you both tried a 
version of Fedora, or ideally tried both and picked the one you liked best, 
but in any case ended up with a version you like. That's the niceness of 
choice, different people have different tastes, and they can all be made 
happy. Nobody here wants to take GNOME away from you, we just want KDE to get 
the equal treatment it deserves.

I realize that being involved with GNOME, you want GNOME to succeed, but 
please try to understand that being involved with KDE, I want KDE to succeed 
too. ;-) (And of course other KDE SIG members want that too, see e.g. 
Sebastian Vahl's reply.)

> You're going to have a better experience if you use GNOME as a newbie
> because it has an exponentially larger number of maintainers and folks able
> to help with it.  

We (KDE SIG) have been successfully recruiting more and more KDE maintainers 
(mostly volunteers, but Red Hat hiring Lukáš Tinkl was also a great move) 
since the Core/Extras Merge. We already went from 1 KDE maintainer before the 
merge to 4 core package maintainers, 1 Live CD maintainer and a few 
application maintainers, and that number is only going to grow.

> I think a call-out box to highlight various spins on the get Fedora page is 
> fine and I do believe that was even in some of the mockups. The KDE spin
> could certainly be in that rotation. 

The KDE spin deserves a permanent mention, it should not get rotated away.

        Kevin Kofler




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