Meeting Log - 2008-06-16

Tue Jun 17 00:39:40 UTC 2008

15:42 < spevack> meeting in about 15 mins?
15:42 < spevack> anyone around?
15:43 < ivazquez> I am.
15:43 < ivazquez> For once :P
15:43 < spevack> how are you?
15:43 < ivazquez> Fine, yourself?
15:43 < spevack> doing well.  I like these meetings because they are only at 10 PM and not midnight :)
15:43 < ivazquez> Heh.
15:45 -!- TimBurke [i=Tim at unaffiliated/timburke] has joined #fedora-websites
15:46 < spevack> is that *the* TimBurke??
15:46 < TimBurke> Well I'm the one subscribed to the list, so maybe?
15:46 < spevack> Red Hat engineering manager Tim Burke?
15:46 < TimBurke> Ha. no.
15:47 < spevack> well, now you can be *the* Tim Burke, and he can be the *other* Tim Burke :)
15:47 < TimBurke> LOL ok.
15:47 < ianweller> oh, meeting in 13 or so. /me pays attention to things
15:49 < mmcgrath> spevack: I was laughing about that too
15:50 < spevack> mmcgrath: i was thinking wow, this meeting just went up a few notches in terms of importance :)
15:50 < spevack> either that or tim needs more to do!
15:53 < spevack> looks like the new planet look&feel just went live
15:54 < spevack> epiphany is not doing a very good job rendering it
15:55 -!- JonRob [n=jon at 88-111-226-231.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #fedora-websites
15:56 < spevack> hi JonRob
15:56 < JonRob> hey spevack :)
15:57 < JonRob> u already for travelling to fudcon?
15:57 < spevack> my flight is at 9:30 or something like that tomorrow morning, UTC +2
15:57 < JonRob> ah not too bad then
15:58 < JonRob> picked my cousin up from the airport this morning - 7.55 arrival :S
15:58 < spevack> ugh
15:58 < JonRob> think she had to get out of bed at 3!
15:58 -!- fchiulli [i=824c4011 at gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fbbe7db3111f0654] has joined #fedora-websites
15:59 < JonRob> thanks for doing the asterisk site btw...
15:59 < spevack> JonRob: no problem
16:00 < spevack> i sit here every week "leading" I figure it's time i actually did something!
16:00 < JonRob> lol
16:00 < ianweller> hehe
16:00 < spevack> ok, who's around?
16:00 < spevack> Roll call please
16:00  * ianweller 
16:00 < spevack> Max Spevack
16:00 < JonRob> Jonathan Roberts
16:00 < ivazquez> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
16:01 < spevack> anyone else?
16:01 < fchiulli> Frank Chiulli
16:01 < spevack> how's everyone doing this week?
16:02  * stickster laughs at earlier TimBurke conversation
16:02 < giarc> CraigThomas
16:02 < giarc> we have a new planet!
16:02 < spevack> So i notice that the new look & feel is live
16:02 < spevack> giarc: that was my first topic :)
16:02  * ianweller applauds it
16:02 < spevack> I think it looks great
16:02 < spevack> but for the sake of completeness
16:02 < spevack> we need two more things
16:02 < giarc> ah i see that, reading the back scroll now...
16:02 < spevack> 1) a wiki page where people can file bugs
16:03 < spevack> 2) a blog post advertising that wiki page
16:03 < spevack> who wants this?
16:03 < JonRob> giarc: you rock :)
16:03 < abadger1999> Toshio Kuratomi
16:03 < spevack> yeah, great work craig
16:03 < giarc> ill make a wiki page
16:03 < giarc> thanks guys
16:03 < ianweller> speaking of bugs. http://planet.fedoraproject.org/heads/ -- that's still linked from the home page, but isn't being updated
16:04 < ianweller> so either it needs shot from the links list, or skvidal has more work cut out for him
16:04 < spevack> giarc: major congrats though.  not picking on you -- *everything* needs a bugs page :)
16:04 < mmcgrath> we starting ze' meeting?
16:04 < spevack> we have
16:05 < JonRob> giarc - dare i ask, but do you have a new target for common look and feel?
16:05 < spevack> we're talking about the new look & feel of planet
16:05 < JonRob> lol sorry for asking!
16:05 < mmcgrath> ah
16:05 < giarc> spevack, i understand...
16:05 < giarc> docs
16:05 < giarc> unless we have other sites that we think need it more ?
16:05 < JonRob> giarc: cool - you shoud speak to couf as he was talking about moving the docs over to the websites' git repo
16:05 < ianweller> docs should be the next first priority, imho
16:06  * spevack votes with the majority
16:06  * couf checks in
16:06 < giarc> JonRob, ok, will do...
16:06 < giarc> and there he is!
16:06 < JonRob> speak of the devil :p
16:07 < giarc> couf, we are talking about common look and feel for docs.fp.o
16:07  * spevack takes a look at the current docs.fp/o
16:07 < couf> giarc: cool, my plan was to try and get the docbook stuff we get as docs to get embeded into the current website layout
16:07 < spevack> yeah, it def needs to be next
16:08 < spevack> fedora.redhat.com called from 2005 and wants its layout back :)
16:08 < giarc> heh
16:08 < couf> basiclly reuse the current build-script for the main site and change it for docbook stuff
16:09 < couf> that said, if you guys have a way better idea, please stop me :)
16:09 < spevack> giarc, stickster, quaid: any of you guys have something to add on this topic?
16:10 < spevack> so should we check in on this next week, then?
16:10 < couf> just to note: it has been mentioned in last FDSCo meeting, so they are on the same page
16:10  * spevack opens up the task list for editing
16:10  * giarc notes I wont be around next week
16:10 < spevack> well, next time you're around then.
16:11 < spevack> so giarc , while you are around, is there anything else on the general look & feel front that you'd like to discuss?
16:11 < JonRob> giarc: could you keep us updated on list?
16:11  * JonRob likes to know *everything*
16:11 < JonRob> *evil laugh*
16:11 -!- TimBurke [i=Tim at unaffiliated/timburke] has left #fedora-websites ["Leaving"]
16:11 < giarc> spevack, nothing now...but i will probably need to ping couf for help building/getting docs sources
16:12 < spevack> ok, good enough.
16:12 < giarc> JonRob, will do
16:12 < spevack> one last round of applause for giarc on the planet work!
16:12  * spevack claps
16:12 < JonRob> woop giarc :)
16:12  * ianweller applauds once more
16:12  * giarc blushes
16:12  * ianweller makes that annoying whistling noise that everyone does at concerts for some reason
16:12 < spevack> heh
16:12 < spevack> alrighty...
16:12 < spevack> let's see what else is on our task list
16:13 < spevack> so we have "common look and feel"
16:13 < spevack> which giarc is the owner of
16:13 < spevack> and "new look and feel"
16:13 < spevack> which jonrob is the owner of
16:13 < spevack> 'sup with that?
16:13 < JonRob> oo boy
16:13 < JonRob> ok - well
16:14 < JonRob> this was following on from mizmo's post to the list about "top 10 things for the website"
16:14 < JonRob> and we were moving along with the idea of usability testing the current website to see where we're going wrong compared to this current list
16:14  * ianweller mentions http://ianweller.org/2008/06/16/usability-testing-at-fudcon.html
16:15 < JonRob> before coming up with new design ideas for a "new look and feel"
16:15 < spevack> yes, i remember all of this
16:15 < spevack> so, are we doing some of that at fudcon?
16:15 < ianweller> i was planning to.
16:15 < spevack> excellent
16:15 < spevack> can you tell us what the general plan is?
16:15 < ianweller> spevack: i think you hinted at that maybe being a good session idea a few meetings ago ;)
16:16 < ianweller> well the general plan is to do some testing with random individuals at fudcon, after going over what we're testing with mizmo and others
16:16 < ianweller> and then reporting our findings at the barcamp session.
16:16 < ianweller> that's what i came up with after waking up today
16:16 < spevack> :)
16:16 < spevack> where will the testing take place?
16:16 < ianweller> haven't thought of that, was hoping you could help with that ;)
16:16 < spevack> well, ok then.
16:17 < spevack> so we need the person who is manning the Fedora Booth to know about it
16:17 < spevack> so that they can recruit volunteers
16:17 < ianweller> agreed
16:17 < spevack> i think we need to bribe folks who do it with some prize
16:17 < spevack> a sticker, a shirt, something
16:17 < spevack> do we have a task list, or exercise, or something people will try to do?
16:17 < ianweller> so you're thinking we should do it at the fedora booth? along with making usb keys and stuff
16:17 < spevack> no, just that the people at the fedora booth know about it
16:18 < ianweller> ok.
16:18 < spevack> but we do it in one of the corners of the hackfest
16:18 < spevack> where there is more space
16:18 < JonRob> spevack: i think...hold on, let me search the archives 'cos i created a wiki page somewhere but can't remember where!
16:18 < spevack> JonRob: the wiki elves recycled it :)
16:18 < ianweller> the mailing list post is where i'm starting from, but i'm gonna come up with a more organized task list later today and tomorrow
16:18 < ianweller> lolwut? which wiki elf is responsible >.>
16:19 < spevack> ianweller: well, if you have a chance to send your thoughts to the list tomorrow that would be great.  otherwise, it will give us something to chat about on wednesday night.
16:19 < ianweller> ok
16:20 < ianweller> as mizmo mentioned in her mailing list post, it would make sense to have 4 separate categories based on experience with fedora
16:20 < spevack> link to post please?
16:20 < JonRob> ok, the least intuitive page title ever:
16:20 < JonRob> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/LookFeel
16:20 < ianweller> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2008-May/msg00320.html
16:20 < ianweller> JonRob: eew.
16:20 < ianweller> fix that if you could, please ;)
16:21 < JonRob> actually, that page needs revising 'cos it was just a dump from mo's post
16:21 < JonRob> but basically, each of those clearly has an activity linked
16:21 < spevack> I'm updating our task list, changing "new look and feel" to "usability testing" and noting that it is part of the larger "10 things for websites to do" topic
16:21 < ianweller> maybe i can use that page as my whiteboard later tonight
16:21 < JonRob> spevack: cool
16:21 < JonRob> ianweller: would be cool
16:22 < spevack> ok, so anything else we need to discuss on this right now, or can the rest be worked out between now and wed night on list, and then me and ian in person?
16:22 < ianweller> i'm thinking i can work on Websites/LookFeel and then we can discuss later.
16:23 < ianweller> this is an idea that recently returned to my head approxamately two hours ago, so its still in half-baked state
16:23 < spevack> sounds good to me.
16:23 < spevack> hmm, looking at the list of tasks...
16:23  * spevack tries to pick ones we haven't talked about for a while
16:23 < spevack> "Wiki Sponsorship Banners"
16:23 < ianweller> where's the task list?
16:23 < spevack> since I know JonRob is here
16:24 < spevack> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Tasks
16:24 < JonRob> hmm, guilty of letting this one slide!
16:24 < JonRob> i'll catch up with it this week
16:24 < JonRob> thanks for the reminder :)
16:24 < spevack> JonRob: that's ok -- remind me *what* that actually means
16:24 < spevack> this task, that is
16:24 < spevack> i know what catching up on stuff you've forgotten means, that's basically my life :)
16:25 < JonRob> ok - quaid's idea about having sponsorship/ownership of wiki pages
16:25 < spevack> right
16:25 < JonRob> we decided that one useful feature might be to have banners to denote who owns which page
16:25 < spevack> ok...
16:25 < JonRob> or not owns, but you know...sponsors/whatever
16:25 < spevack> so i guess the more interesting question is
16:25 < JonRob> and so i was going to have a chat with the art team about their thoughts on helping us out here
16:25 < JonRob> i think quite a few banners exist already
16:26 < ianweller> oh you mean the {{header}} thing?
16:26 < spevack> what is the current status of this whole "sponsorship/owner" idea?  we talked about it a few weeks ago, i know there was some general controversy... does anyone know what is going on there?
16:26 < spevack> is quaid around?  maybe stickster knows?
16:26 < ianweller> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Header
16:26 < spevack> ok, so people are supposed to just be adding this to their pages?
16:26 < stickster> rr?
16:27 < spevack> stickster: just read back a bit, jump in if you have anything to say
16:27 < ianweller> if we're talking about using banners at the top of pages to say that this page is sponsored by a particular sub-project/SIG, we're doing that already.
16:27 < spevack> yeah, i've seen those
16:27 < spevack> and i like those -- it makes good sense
16:28 < JonRob> ianweller: cool - but i think we were talking about having every page sponsored (maybe - user pages)
16:28 < JonRob> maybe that's what we're doing?
16:28 < JonRob> but that template looks like what quaid was after
16:28 < spevack> I would phrase my question this way:
16:28 < ianweller> (i'm strongly against having pages sponsored by particular users, for various reasons)
16:28 < spevack> I see that we have templates, and the ability to show which "group" "owns
16:28 < spevack> " a particular page
16:28 < spevack> so
16:28 < spevack> given that
16:28 < spevack> can i remove those items from our task list?
16:28 < ianweller> i think the purpose though was automation
16:29 < spevack> well then... that is an entirely separate task :)
16:29 < JonRob> spevack: yep i think so
16:29 < ianweller> ah, correct.
16:29  * spevack is of the opinion that if it's not on the task list, it doesn't exist!
16:29 < ianweller> lol, agreed
16:29 < JonRob> spevack: i think there's another task about the automation - quaid investigating mediawiki plugins?
16:30 < spevack> ok, I will remove the old "sponsorship" tasks and replace them with a "make sure we can automate the sponsorship header stuff" task
16:30 < spevack> JonRob: yeah, i'll leave that one too
16:30 < ianweller> if we had a newer version of mediawiki, i could definitely write a bot to do it automatically. but that's another task for another time :
16:30 < ianweller> :P **
16:30 < spevack> we'll talk about that next time quaid is at one of our meetings
16:30 < JonRob> ok
16:30 < ianweller> k
16:30 < spevack> ok, what else?  I'll call myself out
16:30 < spevack> spins.fedoraproject.org
16:30 < mmcgrath> They spinnin!
16:30 < spevack> We're going to have a design session/meeting/workshop
16:30 < spevack> about this on Friday morning at 10 AM
16:30 < ianweller> mmcgrath: 8D
16:31 < spevack> Goals:
16:31 < spevack> 1) agree on the 5 top use cases
16:31 < spevack> 2) try to break out a few tasks that people can work on
16:31 < spevack> 3) have a dev version of the new site running somewhere
16:31 < spevack> on a test instance
16:31 < spevack> before the end of fudcon
16:31 < spevack> what other goals should we have?
16:32 < ianweller> get the word out that people have to come up with spins for each version of fedora? i see no fedora 9 spins.
16:32 < spevack> yeah, that's a big problem.
16:32 < spevack> and it's worth pursuing
16:32 < ianweller> is that website basically just the old torrents.fedoraproject.org page?
16:32 < spevack> right now, yeah
16:32 < ianweller> i see fudcon 2007 videos. those aren't spins :P
16:32 < ianweller> ok
16:32 < spevack> that's just there because we don't have anything else
16:33 < mmcgrath> ianweller: actually no, torrents and spins will be different sites.
16:33 < spevack> 4) review mizmo's mockups from like a year ago, which were really good
16:33 < ianweller> mmcgrath: i understand that.
16:33 < mmcgrath> ack :)
16:33 < ianweller> o O
16:33 < ianweller> that's a long time.
16:33 < spevack> 5) if we get to it, is to talk to kanarip about the infrastructure side of producing spins
16:34 < JonRob> wevisor?
16:34 < spevack> that is something the "spins sig" is supposed to be handling, under mandate from the Board, but it has had little progress lately
16:34 < spevack> JonRob: wevisor is yet another idea
16:34 < JonRob> ok - this is a complicated world!
16:34 < spevack> JonRob: ultimately, we have to separate the CREATION of spins from the DISTRIBUTION of spins
16:34 < spevack> we here in Websites land are focused on the distribution
16:34 < spevack> a spin exists -- it doesn't matter how or why -- all that matters to us is that it exists, and it has been Blessed.
16:35 < spevack> how do we distribute it>
16:35  * ianweller fails to see how that makes very much sense
16:35 < spevack> that's our topic.
16:35 < ianweller> oh well.
16:35 < spevack> for spins.fedoraproject.org
16:35 < mmcgrath> Actually I think the FEL got that mockup to an actual html page but never got it converted to a template.
16:35 < spevack> ianweller: what do you mean?
16:35 < ianweller> spevack: never mind, i think i get it now.
16:35  * ianweller needs more sleep at night...
16:35 < spevack> ianweller: well ask if you have a question
16:35 < ianweller> ok
16:36 < spevack> so anyway, my goal for fudcon
16:36 < JonRob> mmcgrath: http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/FEL/index.html
16:36 < mmcgrath> yep, I think thats the one.
16:36 < spevack> is for us to make progress on all the stuff in Spins Land that takes place *after* the spin has been created, tested, etc
16:36 < spevack> basically
16:36 < spevack> i want us to be able to say "here's your webapp for distributing all the Fedora custom spins"
16:36 < ianweller> ok
16:37 < spevack> "now, where are the spins?  get your act together, spin sig?"
16:37 < ianweller> :3 works well for me
16:37 < spevack> any questions/comments?
16:37 < JonRob> sounds like a very sane approach
16:37 < ianweller> should we wait to make the new webapp live until we actually have spins?
16:37 < ianweller> like, sometime around f10 release
16:38 < spevack> ianweller: well, i figure we'll worry about that once we have it working the way we want on a test instance somewhere, with at least the F8 spins and the F9 spins that we do have populated in it.
16:38 < spevack> is that being too simplistic?
16:39 < ianweller> i see that as OK
16:40 < spevack> anyone else have any comments or concerns?
16:40 < spevack> Is there any New Business to discuss?
16:40 < JonRob> nope
16:40 < JonRob> spevack, just quickly
16:40 < JonRob> i noticed in your blog post you wanted to figure out FWN at FUDCon, i.e. automation
16:40 < spevack> yeah
16:41 < JonRob> can i suggest talking to bret mcmillan from rh - i think he's going to be there
16:41 < JonRob> probs at summit
16:41 < spevack> yeah, i know him well, and he and i have talked a bit
16:41 < JonRob> ok cool
16:41 < spevack> I'll also be in raleigh after summit, so we'll have time together
16:41 < JonRob> well he's packaging wordpress mu for our use
16:41 < spevack> yep
16:41 < JonRob> thought i'd let you know
16:41 < JonRob> ah cool :)
16:41 < spevack> I'm hoping he's at summit, and can come to that session
16:41 < JonRob> you guys should be able to make some good progress!
16:41 < spevack> or at least give me an update that i can use in that session
16:42 < spevack> ok, last thing for tonight
16:42 < spevack> The license question that is open.
16:42 < spevack> I will try to talk to spot about this at fudcon
16:42 < spevack> and just get it taken care of
16:42 < spevack> but he'll be very busy, so it might continue to linger
16:43 < JonRob> np - sure it will sort soon enough :)
16:43 < fchiulli> JonRob: What's the status of wordpress mu?
16:44 < JonRob> fchiulli: i believe bret has packages, but is waiting on a security fix to be pushed upstream before putting them in for review
16:45 < fchiulli> JonRob: Thanks.
16:45 < spevack> oh, that's farther along than i thought then
16:45 < spevack> cool
16:45 < JonRob> yeah, he just said upstream are being slow
16:45 < spevack> ok gentlemen, anything else for tonight?
16:45 < JonRob> nope
16:45  * ianweller doesn't know of anything
16:45 < spevack> mmcgrath: anything you want to talk about?
16:45 < mmcgrath> Nope, looking forward to FUDCon next week.
16:45 < spevack> mmcgrath, ianweller: hope you both have safe travel to FUDCon
16:46 < mmcgrath> thanks!
16:46 < ianweller> thanks :)
16:46 < JonRob> yeah - hope you all enjoy it!
16:46 < spevack> and I will see you guys in the next couple days
16:46 < ianweller> ok :)
16:46 < spevack> thanks for coming to the meeting, all
16:46 < spevack> --------------------------------------
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